Andrea Nordling 0:00
Welcome back to the profitable nutritionist podcast my friend you are in for such a treat today as you hear from my student in the profitable nutritionist program and the mastermind Her name is Mandy Rother. And she is going to tell you a tale for the ages about the evolution of her business, which is very fresh, very new, very, very successful, massively successful. And she did it all while being pregnant with twins giving birth to twins growing her business at the same time starting it from scratch. And now having this amazing, I mean, I don’t even know what to call it freedom factory, because freedom factory Should we go with that a freedom factory that she has created for her family and in her life. And when I say freedom, I mean of course financial freedom, she has a thriving multiple six figure business, but also freedom with her time and with her creativity, and her desire to continue her education, maybe a PhD in her future. And she has a lot to say about that as well. So in this episode, you are going to hear the good and the bad of starting a business from scratch during a pandemic, finding out that you’re pregnant with twins having the twins. And taking a four month maternity leave something that Mandy talked a lot about is how amazing it was to be able to have a four month maternity leave. And she actually surpassed her corporate income in that first year in business while having a very luxurious four month maternity leave. So anyone that’s pregnant listening to this episode, or could use a little bit of encouragement on how fast things really can go when you’re focusing on the right things you are going to love what she has to say. And since joining the mastermind, we also talked about how Mandy has taken a lot off of her schedule, how she has delegated a lot, how she has revamped her work hours and her boundaries and what that looks like because she has created a lot of repeatable systems and processes. So we go into all of that she’s sharing very, very openly with exactly what her business looks like right now, what it looked like six months ago, and what it’s going to look like in the next year, two years and three years from now, which is so inspiring to hear about. So I know you’re going to love this, we’ve referenced the mastermind quite a bit in the episode. So I want to say here, if you are interested in applying for the mastermind, and if you have made at least $50,000 in your business, and you have the goal of scaling your health and wellness practice to multiple six figures in the next 12 months, you should be considering the mastermind, you find out all of the details and get yourself on the waitlist at the profitable nutritionist.com/mastermind. Everything you need to know will be found on that page, including the details for the kickoff of the next round, which is in January in Cancun, Mexico. We talked about that on this episode as well. And all of the specifics. Again, that’s at the profitable nutritionist.com/mastermind applications open on October 30. For the January wrap, again is is a six month mastermind. So that’s January through June, and the applications open on October 30. If you’re listening to this in the future, all of the details will be kept up to date for the next application period at that same page. So all roads lead to Rome. You need to go to the profitable nutritionist.com/mastermind for all the details and getting on the waitlist. All right now without further ado, let’s hear from Mandy. Yay. Okay, Mandy wrote there, welcome to the profitable nutritionist podcast. I am so jazzed about everything we’re going to talk about today. Welcome. Glad to be here. Okay, so we’re just gonna jump in. We’re going to talk about corporate exits, we’re going to talk about twin maternity leaves. We’re going to talk about growing a business during a pandemic. Real quick, like whilst pregnant with the twins. We’re going to talk about transitioning to a hybrid group and one on one offer. Like we have so much to cover. We just have so much where are we starting? Tell us where you’re at? Tell us how we got here.
Mandy Rother 4:05
Oh, man, I even hearing you say that out loud. I’m like, What is this my life? Like? How did this happen? To rewind but the time I had started my business, I had been like a working professional for almost 15 years like this wasn’t my first rodeo. I had worked in various jobs and you know, corporate world I had worked you know, commission and like a fitness club. I had worked overseas in the Middle East in like a weight loss spa. And I had worked in like corporate employee wellness like retail dietitian stuff. So I have a lot of different job experiences. And when, like during the pandemic, actually, I was in a job that I really loved. I was managing a team of dieticians doing some things that I really liked, but I noticed that there were components of the corporate life and the corp. politics that were really wearing me down when where I’d already already had this feeling of like, there’s gotta be something else. Like I’m meant for something different. But it was hard, like, you know, when you’re in your, in your job and you have your health insurance and your 401k, like, it would have been pretty hard for me to like, take the leap and be like, okay, now’s the day, or I’m going to start my own business. And so as weird as it sounds, and as horrible as a pandemic was, it was the best thing that ever happened to me in a professional sense, because I got laid off, my whole team of dieticians got laid off. And the initial fear that set in was huge. You know, at that point,
Andrea Nordling 5:41
I can’t even imagine what when would this have been give us the timeline? So that was
Mandy Rother 5:45
like spring of 2020? Okay, so right away? Yeah, pretty much right away. And, and I had actually just gotten married in January of 2020. And I had pushed my husband to have a winter wedding because I was like, we need to have our another baby. Like, the clock is ticking man. And, you know, we had our wedding in January. And as we were flying back from our honeymoon, that we saw on like, the new screens in the airport, about like, you know, Coronavirus in China. And like, at that point, it hadn’t like fully hit the United States. So it was like, welcome home from your honeymoon, like back to reality, or a new reality? Yeah, so it was at that point, I was still working the corporate job.
Andrea Nordling 6:28
Okay. Okay, got it. So laid off done panic, I can’t even imagine, walk us through what what happened, then?
Mandy Rother 6:35
i Well, of course, I started looking for jobs. You know, I started looking online. And initially, there was fear. And then like, pretty soon after, after a couple days, I was like, Okay, there’s something about this, that feels right. And I just slowly found this, like sense of peace. I’m like, I’m gonna figure this out. It’s gonna be all right. This was like, in a way meant to be. And so I started searching for jobs and doing interviews. And every interview was like, like this, like total, like meth feeling of like, either feeling like I would be underpaid, or overqualified, or it is overall, not super excited. And there were certain people in my life, you know, there were, for example, like two female business owners that were like, you can do this, like, have you thought about having your own business? Like, you’re totally cut out for that? And at first, I was like, Nah, no, I’m not. And and then, you know, I remember a conversation with my sister, we were sitting outside walk, watching the kids play. And she’s like, just imagine she’s like, just imagine the impact you could have and how much money you could make? And like, I was like, No, I can’t. And I had this inner knowing, but I resisted it for the first couple months of my job search. But with each interview I had, and I each interview that I was like, had that map was a feeling, it just became more and more solidified in me that it then became the only option I would consider. And even if, you know, I interviewed for some that I was interested in, even if they had come back to me and offered me a lot of money, even if that Corporation had offered me my job back plus a huge raise, I would have said no. Like, that’s how sure I started to feel that this is what I had to do, which was, which was strange, because I went from such a place of doubt and resistance to like, Nope, this is it. I’m going to do it. And I’m going to figure it out.
Andrea Nordling 8:19
i This doesn’t surprise me at all. Knowing you now, this does not surprise me. In the least I can absolutely see it. Okay, so you decide. Actually, I don’t even know the answer to this. And so I should just tell everybody, as as I’m asking these questions, most of them I don’t know the answers to so we all find out. When did you decide to really dial in on your niche? And can you talk about your niche a little bit?
Mandy Rother 8:44
Yeah. That was a journey as well. And so So I opened my business, and it was like, Okay, I’m going for it. And and when would this event? That was like August of 2020. Okay. Yeah. So I would my business, and I had been working with a different coach at the time. And it was like, aware of this concept of like, choosing a niche. And I had thought about it a lot. And I think there was just this overall theme of fear, right, and that it all kind of come back around to the niche thing. But, you know, there, we had wanted to get pregnant, and we decided, we’re like, we can’t get pregnant. Now we’re in the middle of a pandemic, like, what’s going to happen? Or how are we gonna open my business and not have health insurance with all this stuff going on. And there had been this theme of like, not letting fear take the wheel. And that apply to like, eventually, like, early on, I think it was like fall, the fall of opening like a few months after opening my business. We’re like, alright, we’re getting pregnant. We actually think it was my third month in business. We had my second month of business, we tried to get pregnant and to get pregnant and then the third month we tried and like there were the twins,
Andrea Nordling 9:50
except you didn’t know that they were the twins. Can we just not I didn’t find out
Mandy Rother 9:53
until they were I was five months pregnant. That’s a whole other story. And it was Same thing with my niche that I had this inner knowing of what I wanted to do. But this resistance because, you know, right now I, my primary focus is on premenstrual dysphoric disorder. PMDD is the acronym for that or, you know, mood and menstrual disorders. So I had this fear of, you know, I had my own journey with that. And I knew what helped me, I believed I could help other people really piece together their puzzle from a functional medicine perspective. But the fear was in that, like, Man, I got my work cut out for me, I’m choosing a very severe debilitating condition, it would have been much easier to be like, I’m going to focus on the other things. I’m passionate about PCOS and digestion and all these things. But I felt this inner knowing
Andrea Nordling 10:43
Can we just take a second to be like, how lighthearted that would be like PCOS and digestion.
Mandy Rother 10:51
So much. In the spirit of awareness, for anyone who doesn’t know about this condition, it’s some people like to call it a severe form of PMS, but it is really quite different people can have both physical symptoms and mental symptoms where, you know, all the way from anxiety and depression related to their menstrual cycle to suicidal ideation, there’s actually a huge risk of suicide with the condition, it is severe, some people have really severe cases of it. And so that, you know, initially, I was like, Oh, my gosh, like, I feel this calling, but like, what if I can’t help, and I went into it with my eyes wide open, I was like, I’m just going to see, I’m just going to start, you know, you know, put put up my my website and start working with this condition, and really see what impact I can make. And like client after client, I was like, wow, there’s something to this. And I remember, like, one of my very first clients was a college student who had to leave college because of her symptoms were so severe. And we got her from a place where she was experiencing this was Seidel ideation every month to where she was actually re enrolling in college and exploring like a new professional Avenue. And so and even my assistant today, was one of my very first clients with PMDD. And now she’s thriving, and she works with me, and yeah, and so just with each success story that I had, I felt more and more, not just confident and how I was helping, but that this is really my purpose, you know, and it’s, and I think that initial resistance, I feel like whenever we’re about to do something huge that is life changing, there’s always a little bit of like, messiness and muddiness to it. And I think that’s what I felt that the beginning of my business
Andrea Nordling 12:29
for sure. I also think, I mean, divine intervention, if you had known right away that you were pregnant with twins, maybe you wouldn’t have gone all in on your business, then maybe you would have pulled back a little bit. Maybe the entire journey would be different. Had you known for those first five months.
Mandy Rother 12:47
Well, the funny thing is, is that I knew and this was a lesson, I think, in my business and in life that I had asked in and my husband likes to call it my hippie birth clinic, I was going to a natural birthing clinic so they don’t do the ultrasounds right away. I can’t tell you how many times I asked. I’m like, pretty sure there’s twins in there. There’s two babies in there and you’re not listening to me. And sure enough, there was and it’s I think that has been a huge theme of mine. Like when I really am like putting the fear aside and like listening to my intuition in my business. Just as with the pregnancy, I can’t go wrong. Like it’s like I I feel this it is a little bit of this divine intervention when I can actually slow down pace myself and listen to that intuition. That is where things have felt. There’s been more ease and peace in my in my business when I’m not fighting against what I think should be happening. I’m just going along with what should be happening what is already happening. I can be a little stubborn with that though.
Andrea Nordling 13:46
We’re foreshadowing the theme of this episode, I think is going to be slow down so you can speed up. Way to transition there. I love it. Okay, so what timeline are we at here? What like when were the twins born? And then what what does this all look like? I don’t even know where we’re at in the journey. But
Mandy Rother 14:04
yeah, so like my first year of business they were born and you know, there was a huge fear of mine as well with going or starting my own business was, you know, I have to have provide for my family. Right. And my first year and this is, you know, for anyone listening that’s like thinking of starting their business and like their family has that financial need. I was able to surpass my corporate salary my first year with a four month maternity leave and with feeling like crud at the beginning, like not even just the first trimester like most of the pregnancy. You know, I’m so
Andrea Nordling 14:39
credible. I mean, really, that’s incredible. surpass your corporate salary with a four month maternity leave.
Mandy Rother 14:48
And I honestly don’t think like with my schedule that I used to have and like commuting into the office and all those things. I have thought many times that it really was divine intervention like I don’t know if I could have survived like I feel like maybe I would have ended up on medical leave. But when you have your own business, I was able to, you know, serve my clients and really show up for them, take a nap, go back serve, some more clients have certain days where I didn’t have clients. And that was one of the best things for me, I think was learning how to really practice what I preach, you know, I talk a lot about menstrual cycle awareness and flowing with your cycle. And so I you know, outside the pregnancy, of course, I didn’t have a cycle. But now today, I’m able to, you know, really flow with my own rhythm. You know, I have clients a few days a week, I have a couple of days that are business stuff. And depending on where I’m at, in my cycle that might look more like, Alright, I’m gonna do the accounting stuff, which isn’t my favorite, but you have to do it, you know, or I’m going to do more of the creative stuff, and the writing and the more visionary stuff. And I’m able to do that in a way where it feels like it naturally flows from me versus like a more rigid schedule. So that’s been very freeing, I think, and having my own business, I’m contend to my needs, and lean into my like, kind of cyclical superpower, so to speak a bit better than a regular job.
Andrea Nordling 16:03
Teach me your ways.
Mandy Rother 16:06
Another episode on that.
Andrea Nordling 16:09
But we will circle back up that for another episode, that’s gonna be so juicy. Okay, so how are you getting your clients at the beginning? I know, we don’t have to spend too much time on this. Because I know there’s other stuff we want to talk about too. But I would imagine people listening are like, how do you start your first year in business, and you just like launch, and you have the clients, where were they coming from? For me,
Mandy Rother 16:28
it was being a guest on different podcasts connecting in within the community. within that community, there’s, you know, sometimes educational like summits and things like that, presenting those connecting with other professionals and collaborating. Which for those things that felt very natural for me those you know, I love having that sense of collaboration with other professionals, that sense of community. That’s where I feel at home, you know, connecting with another, you know, podcast, host, I did not do a ton on social media, like I have a social media account, but it is not my focus. It never has been, I’ve always been it and I never felt at home really on social media, I feel like it is for me like an energy poll. Whereas I feel more aligned when I’m have that like deeper more sense of community, which can be created on social media. But for me, it was a matter of prioritizing. I knew I would burn myself out if I were pushing myself to post on social multiple times a week and showing up in stories like, I didn’t want to, I didn’t want to do that. So I really found my clients and another way created community and other ways. And for me, it worked really well. And even somehow not knowing anything about SEO and website design, creating my website, even you know, I’m still working on like making sure that SEO is what it should be. And like everything that we’re learning in the mastermind, but even not knowing and not having the expertise in that by being really solid on my messaging and understanding my you know, my population, people will just find me on Google. And that’s still today, people will be searching for support for this condition, they’ll find me on Google, they’ll connect with my website. And then it you know, it feels simple from there. So I think I really spent a lot of time, you know, especially with experiencing that condition myself, of not just, you know, beyond understanding my own story and what it was like, for me making the connections on what it’s like for the people and working with what’s impacting them what their goals are. And putting that in writing on my website, I think was what made the biggest difference, just that the simplicity of messaging and connecting with your your future clients.
Andrea Nordling 18:34
Yeah, I think that’s so huge. And I think, you know, we can try to optimize for it. And so obviously, the SEO that Mandy’s talking about, it’s an important consideration, at some point in your business to do have an understanding of how search engines are indexing sites, and like how they send traffic your way and what you can do to maximize that. But I think especially in the beginning is long as you are solving someone’s problem. And you’re speaking to the problem that they think they have in the words that they use, and you’re just serving, you’re going to organically get a lot of traffic to your website, it’s service first. Like that’s, that’s the whole nature of the game. And these algorithms are sophisticated enough to know if you have really helpful useful content and people are spending time on your website and reading it and clicking around and they will send more people there. So I love that like we don’t have to complicate it further. It’s just for me, it was
Mandy Rother 19:26
just getting the website up, you know, I created you know, my first you know, maybe half a year in business like a website wireframe, which really just first to like a written outline of your different website pages. And then I built the site myself on Kajabi you know, especially when you’re early on your business, you don’t have a lot of money to invest in having someone else build your site. And for me honestly, it was the best thing because I was able to like picture the journey I wanted people to go through on my website to feel and as you always talk about in your coaching like what emotion do you want people to feel when they are you in your workshop or on your website, and for me it was I want them to feel like, understood and validated and seen because there can be a lot of gaslighting with this condition, people are misdiagnosed for many years like other people just don’t quite get it. So that was the first priority. And also feeling hopeful, like a lot of my message messaging centers around that. And it’s not from like a sleazy marketing perspective and false promises and promising a cure. I think that’s a totally wrong way. But it’s about painting a picture of what’s possible, and the results that I’ve seen my clients get, and then how do we do that? And like, what’s unique about this process? And so, you know, when I was in high school, my mom would always comment of like, how you’re going to find a job that’s like, super sciency. Because I like love the like science side of things, that allows you to do creative writing, and like directly work with people almost in like a therapeutic format. And like, wonder what I’m doing now, like, she would always say, like, in high school, when I was, you know, applying to college and everything, like what’s in store for you? How are you gonna find that job. And like, for me, there is so much, you know, freedom and having my own business, so much creativity, that I feel like that fills my cup, and even whether it’s writing emails, or for the website, like, I love that part of things. And I think that’s what helps people connect with you, too.
Andrea Nordling 21:12
Yeah. 1,000%. Okay, I want to talk about the writing the emails, and I want to talk about all that. But before we do, I want to circle back to your process. So I haven’t like a mental note here that I want to ask you about? How did you feel about creating a process for PMDD? With your first few clients, when you hadn’t run them through it yet? Like you hadn’t do it? You hadn’t done it? You didn’t know for sure what was going to work? What wasn’t gonna work? Did you have a lot of drama about that? Or did you just go for it?
Mandy Rother 21:39
Yes. And no, I think because I had, you know, been a working professional, I’ve been working as a dietician for a long time. So I had all that experience under my belt. It wasn’t, it wasn’t my first time coaching people, just my first time working with that population. And then I had all the functional medicine training. So it was really just applying that training in a very specific way. And then from there, it’s almost like you have small little research studies in your brain with your, with your clients of okay, like, these are the themes that are working with this person and this set of symptoms. And then it’s like, I was able to almost extrapolate data from each and every client I’ve worked with. But yeah, in the beginning, it was more of a fear of, there’s so much out there, like there’s, you know, Facebook forums, and even professional forums have like, almost that the condition is untreatable, without, you know, antidepressants and birth control. And I refuse to accept that, and that wasn’t my story. And so but you still have that noise in your head of like, you know, there’s like, nothing will help. But in the end, there’s a lot of that vibe. And so it was I actually had to, like exit some of the Facebook forums that like there’s, you know, support groups, for example, for the condition, I had to take a break from those, because the message was overall, just so negative of like that, nothing would help that I just had to, like, separate myself from that, and like, really focus on my clients and what I saw help helping right in front of my eyes. And then I got more and more confident about, like really spreading that message that the things that we were doing, were helping and now it’s a solidified, you know, process where like, I have kind of phases and different components that I take people through. And I think, you know, for me, I’ve always held on to the part that like, it really has to be individualized. And so we can work through a process or framework. And there’s certain you know, in my program, there’s, you know, kind of the functional medicine lens, a nutrition lens, nervous system work and menstrual cycle awareness are the essential components. But in my program, when we can talk about this, it’s hybrid, where we have the group and community offerings that weaves those things together. But I’ve never wanted to let go of the one on one component because of that individualization where you know, each person is has their unique puzzle that we have to figure out from that functional medicine lens.
Andrea Nordling 23:54
Yeah, yeah, let’s talk about it. Let’s dive in. I know you kind of had an outline of things that you wanted to talk about. So you just like steer the conversation, what do you think would be most useful for us to pull apart? Oh,
Mandy Rother 24:04
well, I think we can talk a little bit about the mastermind. Like always starting with you, I started the mastermind in my third year of business, so six months ago, almost exactly from when we’re recording this. And I as I was sharing with you before, I had set this intention in my mind that I was like, not going to do coaching this year, like I was going to take a break from coaching. And I had worked with a coach in the past and it was very, very helpful. But I almost felt like I needed a break from like thinking about all the strategy and like how to format my business, and I just needed to almost ride things out. And so that’s why I had decided like, I want to stop coaching actually for now. And I got one little email from you, Andrea and your emails are so good and powerful. I was getting my hair highlighted. And I like was in the like, deepest, darkest. Have I told you the story before I don’t even know No. I was in like the deepest, darkest depths. of my inbox, I don’t even know how like your emails are going to probably to my spam folder. And like there was something that caught my eye and and you had been talking about like the mastermind retreat and Mexico and like building your three year plan. And then I couldn’t stop thinking about it. And I was like, dang it, I had just decided not to do coaching. And here’s this random coach that was totally off my radar showing up in my inbox. And then I just again, that inner knowing that intuition, I felt like I needed to do it and that I needed to take that leap and trust it and override my earlier decision that I didn’t want to do coaching. Because what I realized is that I was getting stuck in decisions and spiraling and decisions because I had learned so much strategy. And, and one of your podcast episodes you were talking about, like making the decision selling yourself on the decision evaluation, like, so simple, right? But I’m like, that’s what I need. I need someone to set that example. Because I, I tend to be an overthinker overachiever. And yeah, so that’s why I started with you. Yeah.
Andrea Nordling 26:03
Okay, I love this. Also, everybody should know that. So Mandy says she’s getting your hair highlighted. And she’s like, in the depths of her of her inbox. I do not know Mandy at this point. She’s not in the TPN program. I don’t know her till I get an application for her. When applications open for the mastermind. And I’m reading your application, I was like, Oh my gosh, the mastermind was made for maybe like this, you are like the person that it was made for. I mean, I say that the truly it was like when you are just you’re doing all the things you do not have any problem taking action. But you do need to just slow down because what got you here isn’t going to get you there. And if there is working less hours working with the exact clients that you want to work with and creating the freedom in your life that you want, then we have to, you know, create a vision, a three year vision and a two year and one year and work backwards to create what that’s going to look like. So theme for you has been slow down to speed up, which has been so fun. So I love that you were getting your hair highlighted. Also fun fact, Mandy and I live really close to each other. No that either. I’ve always like, Oh my gosh, you live right next to my dentist. That’s so great. I should go there more often and see you
Mandy Rother 27:15
actually have the same dentist. So that’s how we’re missing digests. Yes.
Andrea Nordling 27:20
The world is so small, isn’t it? Like, that’s just incredible. Okay, so we had to go to Mexico to meet in real life, even though we actually live 20 minutes apart. So that’s the thing. But the mastermind kicks off we go to Mexico. And for anybody who doesn’t know what we’re talking about, we talked about the mastermind, I have two offers, I have a foundational program called the profitable nutritionist, which teaches you how to create your messaging your offer and your sales process so that you are consistently bringing in clients and making the money that you want to make while you figure out all of these things that Mandy’s been talking about while you figure out who you want to work with. While you figure out what kind of offer you want to have while you figure out what you want your business to look like when you grow up. You’ll learn how to do that in TPN. And then in the mastermind, we take it to the next level. So the income requirements for the mastermind at this time is that you have to have made at least $50,000 in your business. And you have to be full time. And your goal is to scale to multiple six figures in the next six months. So if you meet any of that criteria, you should absolutely be applying for the mastermind, then that’s what we’re talking about. So last April, we kicked off in Cancun, and actually the January round, it’s six months for the mastermind, the January round is going to be in Cancun, again, we’re going back to the same place because it was a good it was a great experience. So we’re going to repeat that again. And I would love to find out from you what that event like the I mean, I think that then we’ll talk about the mastermind in lots of different details. But I would love to know about the live event in particular for you like well, how what did you think that was going to be like? And then what was it actually like? I don’t know if they were different, but I’m just curious.
Mandy Rother 28:53
Yeah, they were they were well, and when I first saw your email, like promoting the mastermind, I was like, Okay, do I dislike this girl because she’s like, Minnesota vibes like me? Do I just want to go on a business retreat to Mexico? Or is there like, like, I was, like, started to question my, like motives. And that like intuition that I felt like I had to do it and then showing up in Mexico, I just I expected to get a lot done. And honestly, I didn’t get a lot done because I was just soaking everything in. And I hadn’t traveled in a long time, you know, since do the pandemic and pregnancy and all these things. And so, honestly, like, my expectation was to like, knock out like a whole workshop and get that done and outline which I didn’t do. But what I did do was I felt kind of like refreshed and rejuvenated. And I think part of it was you know, seeing other people in their businesses having the same I call it my brain BS like the stories that my brain makes up to try and hold me back that I have to work through that. A lot of other people have similar kind of narration in their mind, right that they’re working through. And so that was huge for me that it felt really vulnerable to like, share that with the group. And then and I think with the type of coach you are, I felt able to do that because I feel like you’re a fellow like Type A overachiever. Like, I feel like you just kind of got me and everyone else in the group was was similar, right? Even though everyone’s had a different place in their business. So that was the biggest thing for me to feel this sense of like, rejuvenation in my business that like, okay, there’s nothing wrong with what I’m doing. There’s nothing wrong with the way my brain is working around this. This is normal, this like a normal little tantrum that your brain puts up, that you just have to work through with support. And so I think that’s where it was just valid validating for me overall, and the super great to be able to be open and vulnerable and work through through some of those things.
Andrea Nordling 30:51
I think so too. I think there’s just no substitute for in person. I mean, we could get close online, we can we can make great experiences online, of course we can. And we do, but in person is where it’s at, for sure. For sure. Okay. So in April, when we kicked off the mastermind, you had several offers, let’s talk about it. You only have one offer now.
Mandy Rother 31:15
Yeah, I mean, even before the mastermind started, you had had us read the the 1 million or what what’s the book called The 100 million dollar offers? Yes, like, so I had read that in preparation for the retreat. And I was thinking a lot about my offers. And what I had, I had started with just one on one coaching, you know, early in my business, which I absolutely think was the right decision. That’s what I know. That’s what I actually love to do. That’s how I really got to know not only the needs of my population, but also solidify that process we were talking about. So if anyone is brand new listening, like follow Andrews advice and start with one on one, I think that’s huge. But I had gotten to a place where I was like, okay, like I need to, you know, make sure I’m able to increase my impact serve more people, while still protecting my own health and time. And I so I added a group offer. And so during consults, I was talking about like, okay, is this person a better fit for the group? Are they a better fit for what had become a hybrid offer, so group plus one on one. And I think doing that actually made me go backwards a little bit in my business, because I realized in those consults, I felt like everyone’s a good fit for the hybrid, everyone needs one on one. And I felt like it the only thing that was leading that decision with like the client was a budget. And so I wanted to make my offers such that everyone could take advantage of one on one and then have all the beauty that comes with community support. And that I made that decision. Pretty much I don’t remember if I made it in Mexico, right after the Mexico retreat, where I was like, you know, what I need to trust my gut go back to what I really see is working and what I believe most and and so I got rid of the group only option. And now it’s all hybrid. And so what I found that by doing that is I got my consult mojo back to think of it as we had a beautiful console intensive in the mastermind. And honestly, I used to teach consults to other, you know, dietitians, and fitness professionals and such. And it reminded me of like, oh, yeah, that’s what works. That’s what I used to do. And so I got back to doing that. And that plus talking about my one single offer my business like, you know, I stopped that backslide. And it like took off again, because I felt so solid in it. And I think the people I was working with were getting the most support they possibly could, between both and like the results have been incredible with that offer that I just know is working. So I just had to get out of my own way, and get the thought, you know, everyone talks about Okay, your next step is the group offer, I just had to get that out of my head, and realize, like, know that, the next step is what’s best for my clients and what’s best for me. And and that was a hybrid offer. So now that’s what I’m doing. And it’s working.
Andrea Nordling 34:04
Totally. And now we’re creating the three year vision of what does that look like in your company with you, maybe not doing all of the fulfillment of the entire offer and playing with different options for what that looks like. So I want to say for everybody listening to this, there’s a way to streamline and scale your offer to grow without totally burning yourself out. We just have to figure out what that is. And the possibilities are literally endless on how to do that. So the spoiler here is you just have to decide what kind of business you want. What do you want your business to look like? And then we’ll figure out how are we going to get there, but there is no right or wrong. There’s just your goals and for you I know it’s super important for you to be able to be working less and still impacting more clients. So it’s really fun to watch you do that because you have been working a little bit less over the last six months. Do you want to talk about what you have created some of the results Since we started in April, yeah,
Mandy Rother 35:02
well, and I just for everyone to know, and some of you probably relate that are listening, I’m the type of person that I will do what it takes, I will go to the end of the earth for a client to help them get the results that they came to me to get to help them find that relief. For me at times that has looked like staying up until midnight researching their labs, or, you know, working on the weekends to like, record the modules that are included in my program. So they’re just right. And so I definitely I struggle with the perfectionism side of it, but also like, I have to constantly be in tune with those boundaries for myself, because I will always do what it takes, even if it’s at my detriment, which is a good thing and a bad thing, right. And so I’ve just had to accept that like that, that is, you know, I need to make sure I’m not spreading myself too thin. And that I’m, you know, really putting my energy and effort where it’s most needed. And so within the mastermind, what that has looked like, is intense delegation to my assistant. So anytime I do something, I asked myself, could Zoey do this? And the answer is typically, yes. If it’s not something that requires my expertise, as you know, dietician, functional medicine practitioner, typically, the answer is yes, she can do it instead of me doing it. And so we have started creating systems where I do this, only the stuff that requires me so for example, I still love to write my own emails, I enjoy it. And, you know, I think the same for you, Andrea, like, you know, that writing part like, and then she does everything else, she formats it in, in, like our email delivery system, make sure it’s scheduled all that, you know, I teach the group coaching call, she does it, you know, takes the recording, puts it on the private podcast puts it, you know, you know, formats and edits, the recording, etc, like, and so that has allowed me the creating those systems has allowed me to really focus on the things that I love to do, and the things that require me without the like, energy suck, essentially, of the other stuff. And so, you know, I had hired her before the mastermind, but I’ve been able to utilize her more and more effectively, with, you know, honestly, it’s been learning how you and, and your Director of Operations function, and then the systems that, you know, she has given us in, you know, the task management system and building off those templates, and it gives me the peace of mind, like, I’m at the point now, where I can teach a group coaching call. And then I’m like, you know, I process that, how did it go, I kind of evaluate that call. And that’s it, like, I can trust her to do everything else and every other step. And that frees up either like, I’ve been working less, because my family requires a lot of me, or I can put more effort and research into, you know, learning, you know, you know, looking on Google Scholar and reading research articles or researching for a client, those things I love to do that I used to do at midnight, I now can do in my working hours. Because I’ve learned how to delegate and I am delegating. So that’s been huge. The systems that like seeing you guys do it by example. And then you’ve given us like templates, like done for you templates has been huge for me. Yeah, that was something
Andrea Nordling 38:06
after the first couple rounds of the mastermind, I mean, in my evaluations of it, I’ll just like, bring everyone on, like behind the scenes of what that looks like to this is the closest I have as an of an offer to working with one on one clients. So the mastermind is a small, intimate group. I know your guys’s businesses, I’m thinking about you all the time and trying to figure out how do we make this better? How do we make this simpler for you? What can that look like? And so after running a couple rounds of mastermind, I had my team create some resources to show like, what is it that we do? What do these processes look like? What does a project management system look like? How do you delegate things digitally? When you have a team that works remotely? And you guys aren’t, you know, you’re not with each other? Like, what does that actually look like? So what Mandy is talking about, is in Mexico, when we were all together, Raven was there. She’s the director of operations, she was just like, sharing her screen. And she’s like, What do you guys want to know? Then? There was a lot of questions about like, what’s the podcast editing process? What’s the email delegating process? Like? What’s the task management? How do you organize files? Like how do things get shared? What does this actually look like day to day? And so we have built out some templates and trainings on showing that kind of stuff. So that is just a work in progress. Honestly, as, as you ask questions, just like for everybody, when you’re working with your clients, they ask questions, things that you think are just like, Oh, everybody knows how to do this. Your clients will ask you, can you break that down? Can you show me what it actually looks like? And you realize, oh, I could make some done for you resources, or I could do this with you. And those kinds of things just come over time. The more people you work with the end, like the more I don’t know, I guess like the more I think the more spacious your calendar gets so that you can actually think about making those solutions and you’re not just like in the day to day stuff all the time. The more whitespace you have on your calendar, the more that it becomes fun to create those resources and the possibilities like what could we do next time or what could we do for clients? then what could this look like? I have a lot planned for the January round that you don’t even know about yet. So I won’t spoil it here on the podcast, but like all of this space to just think about how can we make this easier and better for you. Like, that’s what we’re all doing with our clients all the time. So, so fine. So, so, so fun. Well, in speaking
Mandy Rother 40:16
of the white space, I think, for me, there was a time where unconsciously I started to believe that lack of whitespace equals success. That meant I was like fully booked with clients, there were times where there was like a waitlist to get started with me. And from our hustle and grind culture, that felt like success, right. But it also felt like, but I want to help this person right away. And I want to like, you know, and so then I would stretch my calendar. And and now I’ve learned, especially with creating the hybrid offer, where I’m not doing one on one sessions as often, but then they still get extra access to me through the group coaching and the modules, I have more space on my calendar to have those creative downloads to make those decisions. And it’s that’s been huge, where I feel like I have breathing room, and I’m able to show up for my clients better, and be able to end my work day without feeling like I have to, you know, hop back on my laptop at 8pm when the kids go to bed. And so I think I’m just able to show up differently than I was before. And even like the systems that we’re creating, like, you know, we’re awaiting, you know, your ravens template for podcasts, because I know, I practice constraint that I’m not starting my podcast yet. Oh, I know, that’s a big word you coach on. But I know I have a whole parking lot of ideas that I know, you know, I’ll have that system in place from Raven, and I can hit the ground running, when I decide it’s time when I’m ready for that. And it was a couple of months ago, you said something to me, and I wrote it down that was so impactful. So I want to share it with everyone. And I don’t even know if you remember saying this, but you had mentioned of like, it’s just a matter of when, like you said something like your success is inevitable. And you decide when like you decide when you’re ready when you want it. And that was huge for me because sometimes there’s this sense that we have to like keep driving forward. And and going to the next thing and growing and growing. And I almost felt like I was growing, my business was growing faster than I could keep up with. And so I was able to, especially with the three year plan piece, and that was like a big thing I wanted to do with joining the mastermind of like, okay, now I know I feel more calm knowing Okay, and my three year plan, I will do the podcast likely around this benchmark at this point, I’ll be ready, I’ll know I’m ready for it with these factors, or I’m going to, you know, write a book or whatever my big next step is at this point, but I don’t have to do it now. And so I think that has I feel less stressed, I feel less like I’m not doing enough. And I was catching up because I know I will eventually do it. When I decide when that it’s inevitable. It’s just not right now. So I just want I just wanted to put that out there that was so impactful when you said that to me. I like wrote it down. And it’s like in my little Business Journal.
Andrea Nordling 43:02
I love that. And it is so true, it is inevitable. So you just get to decide is the time now? Is it later? It’s not? Is it going to be successful? It’s not? Like, should I do it? Like, of course I’ll do it. I’m going to create it this is you just know, I think like I would say and I think people listening to this episode, we’ll see this and you, you are really good at listening to your intuition. So you know, there’s a podcast me, there’s a book in me in the future, I’m not in a rush to get there, I’m gonna do it at the right time. I’m setting up my business for the long term, because I’m gonna do all of these amazing things. I’m helping so many people. So then, like being really solid in that and following your intuition, you know, there is no rush. It’s not an if this is going to work. It’s not like I have to do this right now and strike while the iron is hot. It’s like I’m here for the long haul. I’m helping people today. I’m helping a lot more people tomorrow. And all of it’s gonna happen. It’s just inevitable. So good. Okay, so what else has well, actually? Okay, so you said a little bit that you are working less hours? Can you give us an idea of how many less hours you’re working? I’m curious about what that looks like for you? And did you anticipate that that was going to be something that happened over the last six months?
Mandy Rother 44:07
I hope so. But I didn’t know if it was possible. And and I think for me, you know, being a mom, there’s this kind of question of like, Okay, what does that schedule look like? What does that it and I’m still figuring that out. But you know, I take my clients on, you know, three days a week, I’m very, very boundaried. With that. Occasionally I’ll accept a client on a non client day, but I know for me and my personality, like how my nervous system is that I’m quite introverted, having two days for those, you know, so I have three client days. And then the two other days those are, you know, I plan for what I need to get done in my business, but I also allow a lot of, you know, grace and flexibility. And so you know, depending on what’s going on with life, and so that’s where that space comes in. You know, even today, I want to write an email to my email list. First, I need to record some modules for my program, I have some goals that I want to finish before the end of the quarter. But you know, even in my system, I’m feeling like restless today. So I’m going to take a break after our podcast and go lift weights, right? Like, I’m able to have enough space that I can flow with my needs. And make sure and then this is, again, work in progress, as I’ve shared with you before, like I’m still working on how do I take care of my own health, but it hasn’t, I haven’t like reduced, for example, my childcare yet, because I feel like I’m still recovering. My twins are two years old, I’m still recovering postpartum, my health is still recovering. So within those two days, non client days that I’m working, right now, it’s just a balance of, you know, am I like, really, in business mode, getting a lot of stuff done? Do I need to take, you know, some time for my wellness? Or am I able to end working early and pick up my kids early? And so it’s, I just feel like, I have choice. I have choice now rather than grinding. And like I shared before working until midnight, and all those things. So yeah, I would say overall, like hours are much less, I don’t know how many hours per week, I should track that
Andrea Nordling 46:07
is actually going to track that we’re going to do a time audit. Yes, I
Mandy Rother 46:10
know, that’s coming. And I need that. And well, then I’ve also I did that a few months back when I was looking at like, what can I delegate to my assistant. And so it was like an informal time audit of like, what all the things that I can hand off. And so I think that was my first step to reduce the over working. So I think ultimately, for me, I honestly I love to work, I don’t know that I would feel like feel good. If I worked 15 hours a week, I feel like I would be what I would want to be working. That’s just who I am. But I think for me, what would feel really comfortable, and I’m probably close to that now would be 30 hours a week where I can, it’s kind of my goal would be to get to that, maintain that. And then have more time for you know, vacation, or even like the business travel, I’ve been doing, you know, the mastermind retreat, you know, we had our Montana retreat, you know, I’ve gone to some conferences, like professional conferences to learn, like, like I mentioned, science nerd, that fills my cup to go to those. Whereas before, like to do those things when I was you know, working for another company, I had to take PTO days to like, go to a conference. And so I think now I just I’ve created that time and space to work really hard on my business, take care of myself and then learn, I think is huge,
Andrea Nordling 47:25
which is what it is work time. It doesn’t mean you don’t have to I’m not saying for anyone listening to this, that you have to be working all the time. But that legitimately is working like learning and putting yourself in the rooms where you are hearing new ideas, and obviously getting inspired for your business and for your clients just totally working. I think this is so fun. Because I don’t know if I’ve told you this before, but I like thought about this is maybe five years ago, like what would my dream business be? Like, if I could just like travel for work and my business paid for it. And my job was just to read like personal development and business books. best life ever. And sometimes I have to pinch myself and go oh, yeah, we created that. Look at that. That’s so fun.
Mandy Rother 48:12
Yeah, and I thought of that too. Like, if I could work directly with people supporting them on their journey, have time to both write and be creative. Even creating the workbook for my program was hugely creative. It’s like visually beautiful in in our mastermind group. They call me a savant. It’s kind of a joke.
Andrea Nordling 48:33
Savant. It is beautiful, you guys
Mandy Rother 48:35
and trying to learn. Yeah, I mean, that that was my, that was my goal. And I’m considering, you know, thinking of my longer term plan, like I’m thinking about, Do I want to get a PhD? How can I format my business where, you know, I can run my business, keep serving my clients, maybe support and then manage a team of practitioners to allow me to, you know, get my PhD or write a book or whatever that big step is. And so it’s like, everything is in preparation for that. But like we’ve been talking about, I don’t have to do it right now.
Andrea Nordling 49:06
That’s so good. Okay, so I know you have been writing more emails and taking more time to be creative as of late. Do you want to talk a little bit about that?
Mandy Rother 49:14
Yeah. So I always had the belief that, you know, emails were important. And I know that’s, you know, big with what you coach on and TPN. But I had felt like, you know, because my business grew faster than I could keep up with it. I had to prioritize, and I would always prioritize, you know, serving the clients I already had and helping them get results. And so I had taken a like, total break from email, like email marketing, total break from social media, I just wasn’t doing it. And thankfully, my business was still thriving because of people finding me through Google and, you know, client referrals, referrals from other professionals, all those things we talked about earlier, but I always felt in the back of my mind, I want to be doing it because I think I can help people whether they become clients or not them reading my email. calls, I hope will help them. And I think that was a big thing was starting the mastermind, you had shared a belief and we had talked through this of like, you know, what would it be like to have the belief that people want these emails and they need them, they’re gonna benefit them. And I like just grabbed onto that belief right away. And I started our very first month and mastermind started emailing people every single week. And, you know, I even sent an email last week and it’s been like this whenever I like, write from the heart and like, really connect with what I believe people need to hear I get responses back of like, OMG, I needed to read this day I read this today, or like, I’ve never felt so seen or like, Are you inside my brain? Are you the same person and just people thanking me, literally thanking me for emailing them. And so you know, I think sometimes we think about email is like a marketing tactic and those things, but really, I see it as serving my audience, where it’s not all about selling, of course, I want them to become clients, I know I can help them and I want to grow my business. But it really does feel in service to them, which is super fun. And so again, it like fills my cup. I love doing it. And I’m hearing from people that it is helping them. And so I want to be able to do more of that. And that’s part of what creating the space is all about of how do I do more of that, whether it’s reading emails, or podcast episodes, or those sorts of things?
Andrea Nordling 51:21
Yeah, the podcast is coming. I’m feeling it. The podcast is coming.
Mandy Rother 51:25
If anyone listening wants to come work for me, as a practitioner, send me a message because I’m going to be hiring soon. Just
Andrea Nordling 51:32
like we’re not kidding, everybody. We are not
Mandy Rother 51:35
looking for a unicorn here, but I will find the right person.
Andrea Nordling 51:39
You will you will. Okay, so like, that’s a really good segue, what is coming next in your business? What does it look like?
Mandy Rother 51:45
Well, I don’t know. I don’t know exactly. I think I’ve been thinking a lot about hiring, hiring another practitioner, which feels like a huge step, you know, having finding that unicorn, that right person that has the same level of passion and integrity as I do, but I just have to trust that that person is out there. And so I’ve been working on a belief of like, what if that person can, you know, they’re, they have the core components and the core values that I want that we share, but they have something totally different as well, that it actually is in service to to my community, right, where it’s not like, Oh, I didn’t get to work with Mandy, it’s like, wow, I get to work with this other person. And so I in my past work life, I, as I mentioned, was managing a team of dieticians, and mentoring them, I loved that. I love you know, that that sense of community with other professionals. And so I want to recreate that in my business. And it’s already started with my assistant, you know, she’s a former client, she has a passion, she’s actually getting, you know, health coaching certificates and women’s health, like, it’s that ripple effect that she saw the power of like what we were able to do together. And now she wants to do that and do more of that. And so I imagine creating, you know, a bigger clinic, essentially a virtual clinic, where I have other practitioners like, under my wing, and were able to help more people that way, and still keep the individualized approach that I really believe in, without over stretching myself, because then I won’t help anyone if I if I burn myself out. So I think that is next. That’s next. And then from there, we’ll see the podcast or book or some way to kind of expand my impact. I think like further down the line, I see myself training other professionals on my method, and really like spreading the love spreading the impact in that way. Which is part of the reason I’m you know, considering you know, a PhD and being able to bring in research components and things like that, because it’s almost like thinking about beyond the clients, I’m helping now, what is the working environment that I want to create where people can feel like, upheld and uplifted in their working environment, which doesn’t happen very often, like, it’s not in every workplace that you’re like talking with your employees? Like, what day of your menstrual cycle are you on? And what do you like, so like my assistant, and I, we always know, like, where we’re at in our cycle, and like our general like mood and needs and like creating that have a working environment. And then beyond that, like kind of my legacy of being able to give back of like, everything I’ve learned how to I hope that kind of spread all over the world. So whenever I retire, you know, decades from now like that this work doesn’t go to waste. Because again, with this condition that I work with, there’s a lot of hopelessness, and I want to make sure that the things that I’m learning, you know, it’s like until somebody hits a research paper, it’s like how do you disseminate that information? So I want to be a part of that process to, for people to know that like really is possible that there are things that you can do, and not even just relief, but like immense, immense relief that someone’s actually thriving with this condition. Because that message just isn’t out there enough.
Andrea Nordling 54:51
Yeah. I love listening to you talk about this because I know for so many people it could their mindset could be this is so big. I don’t know how to do it and just shut down. And But hearing you talk about all of the possibilities and all the directions this could go and like a lifetime of your body of work and it in a really abundant and like excited way, I think is so refreshing. And I just want to recognize that, that you’re so good at this. And that’s available for all of us to just not be in a hurry. I say this as much for myself as everybody else should just not be in a hurry and know what’s going to happen. Like we said before, it’s inevitable. It’s not an if it’s just you get to decide one so good. So anything else that we should know, anything else that you wanted to share or you think would be useful? For anybody listening to this to hear? I think you’ve been so generous so far with all of your all of your insights, I’m just eating it up a lot of this. I didn’t know you guys so so fun. Yeah,
Mandy Rother 55:44
no, I think I would just end with, like, letting it whatever fear you have, like letting it be there. But like befriending that fear, like noticing it, exploring it, what’s that all about, but not letting it take the wheel, not letting it lead your decisions. And, and I’m not like a huge risk taker personality, like, but I eventually had to, like, lead with that intuition and take that leap. And so I think I would just encourage everyone to like, just notice that fear, see what it’s all about. And then really tap into and spend some time like trusting that, that intuition and like taking, taking that big step forward, because it is possible, it is possible, and it will come with time. And it will probably come faster than you think as it did for me. Like I never anticipated, like how quickly my business would grow. with not knowing anything about starting a business. I just knew how to help people. And so it’s been fun to put on, you know, rather than only wearing the practitioner hat, putting on the entrepreneur hat, I never thought I would consider myself an entrepreneur, I’d never thought I would consider myself like, you know, people call themselves like a CEO. I don’t really love that term. But I feel like the entrepreneur spirit I like found within myself that I didn’t know was there because I realized I love helping people so much. And I need to be an entrepreneur and grow my business to do more of this and have more of an impact. And then that hat I was able to put on second. And so I think yeah, take the leap, take the leap, you can do it. And and you can build, you know, a lot of people talk about having a passive income and passive business. And for me, it’s not about that. For me, it’s about having, you know, freedom and creativity and really like stepping into my calling, and feeling more fulfilled. Like I feel so much more fulfilled than I ever have. In my work before. I felt like I like my job, but something is missing. And so I’m just so glad that I’ve been able to do this, and I hope more people do it. And the follow that calling
Andrea Nordling 57:44
me to oh my gosh, Couldn’t have said it better myself. So where do people find you? And if I mean if this unicorn is listening? How does this unicorn practitioner or maybe a handful of them reach out to you about that opportunity give us all of the ways that people need to contact you?
Mandy Rother 58:04
Yeah, so my practice is called reveal functional nutrition. So the best way to contact me is on my website. And if you know someone you know struggling with mood or menstrual disorders, send them my way, I’m happy to help them. I do feel like it’s it’s a condition that really requires specialization and with you know how severe it is. So send those people my way. And then if you’re looking to work for like this type of practice, and you’re passionate about menstrual health and mental health, reach out and tell me that you’re my unicorn. I’m not sure exactly when I’m going to start the hiring process either this coming quarter for or in early 2024. But I know that it’s on the horizon and trust that I’ll find the right person. So if that’s your message?
Andrea Nordling 58:49
Yes, yes, yes. Okay. We will have Mandy’s contact information linked up in the show notes for this episode you thank you so much for openly sharing the idea your journey is so fun from glade off beginning of the pandemic to starting your own business having twins now having this thriving multiple six figure business that you are just growing into me something that’s like just perfect for you. I think I think that that’s how I would describe it. It’s absolutely perfect for you is your vision. It’s helping so many people. And how cool is it that that didn’t even exist a few years ago, like it wasn’t even a thing and now you just created it. So while Yeah,
Mandy Rother 59:31
I still have the feeling like Is this my life? Should I really do this? Am I really helping all these people so it feels a bit surreal at times and I’m just so grateful that like I’ve like I mentioned at the beginning I really feel at home in my business I feel at home in my Colleen like I know this was what I meant to do. I just need to keep doing it strategically with the systems that we’ve been working on the mastermind so I can keep doing it and prevent that burnout prevent that overwhelm so that’s, you know, again And ultimately, like, I think it’s been so helpful for me, you have seen you do it as an example. And then learning those systems so I can keep doing what I do best. So thank you for that.
Andrea Nordling 1:00:09
Oh my gosh, well, it’s my pleasure. And there’s a lot more that came from like, I can’t even wait for you to see what’s coming your way.
Mandy Rother 1:00:17
Next round, I’ll be there. I’m in the next round. So I’ve looked forward to meeting you.
Andrea Nordling 1:00:22
I mean, thank you for pimping the mastermind. I love it. Did you go to the profitable nutritionist.com/mastermind to get on the waitlist, so that you can apply on October 30 When applications open and join us in Mexico, because we’ll be back in Mexico in January. For all new content and all new we have a new, like a new I’m not even gonna say we have great stuff planned for January. Come on. Thank you so much for spending time with us today Mandy and I sincere that we are going to do another episode all about working with your cycle flowing with your flow. That’s going to be interesting. Yeah, you can teach me all about it. Okay, great. Thank you so much for coming. You’re welcome.
