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16. Stop “Convincing” and Start Marketing

Marketing does not equal convincing.

You’re not trying to “recruit” your friends and family to work with you or coercing everyone you talk to into booking a consultation with you with a hard sell.

We want you to have a social life and not be shunned, ok?

So stop “convincing.” No more of that.

Anytime you’re feeling a convincing, needy, desperate energy, it’s going to be felt by everyone you speak to (and write copy to), which will repel your easiest, dreamiest clients. They don’t need to be “convinced.”

What I teach is how to create so much value and possibility for your people that they don’t ever need to be convinced. The most perfect, ideal clients are coming to you asking how they can work with you and when they can start.

That’s creating clients, not convincing.

That’s also what great copy can do, my friend. Let’s talk about it so you can stop “convincing” and start writing some great copy that speaks directly to your dream clients, instead.


Andrea Nordling 0:00
Hello, and welcome back, my friend, I am so excited to be chatting about our topic today. Because well, few reasons. But first and foremost, because I just wrapped up releasing a new course in my program in the profitable nutritionist. And this course is all about creating better clients and content and copy. And I’m going to talk a lot about copy today and content and clients. So this is very top of mind for me. And I think it is a super important topic, just to always be thinking of and always be thinking of a new ways. And well, we’ll get into that. But why that is so important. I also want to say that we if you don’t know this about me, my family and I are traveling, like we are living the Gypsy life and so we are on the road for the first time in a while we had actually been surprisingly stationary for a while in Minnesota, which is home for us. And we are back on the road now. It is exciting and fantastic and absolutely wonderful in every way. Except that it is a little tricky for me to get a quiet place to record the podcast. So I apologize in advance if you hear dogs barking, or you hear doors slamming or air conditioners turning on or anything like that, because this is RV Life. And it’s a little noisier than I really realized until I started recording this. Oh, there’s a little update for us. We are in Florida right now. It is sunny and beautiful and wonderful. And I’m not missing Minnesota one single bit right now, as you can imagine. Okay, so back to our topic at hand, which is the core message, I’m just going to give you I’m going to start with that the core message of today’s broadcast is that marketing is not the same as convincing, those are not the same thing. I want you to stop convincing, and start marketing. And when you do this, I am going to propose that you will love marketing. And it will be the favorite thing that you do in your business. Because marketing is so valuable. And it’s so impactful. And it is such a service to everyone that gets to participate in your marketing. Also, of course very beneficial for you as a business owner, when it is not convincing. No convincing. Yes, marketing. How do we do that? Why do we do that? What does it even look like? Right? So I’m going to assume that you are not trying to recruit your friends and family to work with you in your business. And if you are, then we need to have a little chat about that first and foremost, because that is a terrible idea. I want you to have a social life. We want you to be able to show your face in public and not feel spammy and salesy and weird with your personal network. Okay. So again, this kind of goes back to this feeling like we have to be convincing, and we have to be on all the time. And if we’re a business owner, now we’re, we’re doing this thing where we’re promoting our own services. And we have to always be selling always be convincing. It’s a really gross icky feeling. Don’t do that. You guys know, I love me some network marketing. But this is a very network marketing thing. When you see someone that is new in network marketing, that is selling a product and all of a sudden they’re trying to recruit all of their friends and family to work with them. That is not what you want to do. We know that, that not everybody does that, of course. And I have to make the disclaimer, again, I love me some network marketing, I do network marketing, or at least I have. And it’s all good. It’s just sometimes can be done in a way that is a little convincing me and a little recruiting me and that doesn’t feel good. And I don’t want you to think that that is what marketing is for your business. Because it does not have to be in fact, it should not be you want to have a social life, you want to have friends. Anytime you are feeling that icky, convincing grasp be desperate energy, it’s going to be repelling the clients that you really want to be working with. And that’s why this is really important to think about your easiest dreamiest clients, they don’t need to be convinced. Okay, we’re gonna circle back to that. But first, let’s talk for a second about where clients come from in the first place. And who are these easiest clients? I love this question Where Where do clients come from? Well, it’s like the question, Where do babies come from?

Andrea Nordling 4:14
Except somehow, I don’t even know how this is possible. But somehow, it’s even more uncomfortable and awkward when we ask that. It’s like the elephant in the room that nobody wants to ask because you just think, Oh, well, does everyone else have clients and I’m the only one that doesn’t or am I the only one this is hard for? I don’t even want to ask, okay, I’ll figure it out on my own. It’s just like, it’s some kind of a taboo topic sometimes. Well, it shouldn’t be. Let’s not overcomplicate it at all. Clients are created with the words that you say, and the words that you write. You create them, you create the clients. That’s where clients come from, from your brain and the things that you say, clients are all around you every minute of every day, either physically like you actually know these people, or you’re around these people, or they are digital Billy around you, or relationally, like Kevin Bacon ish friend of a friend connection style, these people are around you right now all the time, every day. And when you start saying and typing the words that these people need to hear your easiest clients, your best dreamiest perfect clients, when you start seeing and typing the words that they need to hear, they will start paying attention, they will tune in, they will get referred to you, they will stumble upon your website online, which is like the most fun. They will overhear a conversation that you’re having at your kids sports practice with another parent or something like that. pay these people are already there. They’re not new people, they are already there. But your words and your copy are going to cause them to pay attention and turn them into clients. So that’s why this is an important discussion, right? The words that you say they’re important. Also the words that you don’t say those are also important. The way that you talk about your business and the way that you talk about yourself, and your processes and your philosophies and your values. And the stories that you tell about you and about people you know, or clients, you’ve worked with all of these things that either make the right people pay attention and want more those right people are the easiest best clients that you want more of, or they repel them completely. And I know that this is a little scary to think about. But repelling people completely is not always a bad thing. Sometimes you do want to repel people, that would be your hardest clients that you don’t want to work with. Repelling them is a okay. I know I know, it sounds so out there to say that there are people that you don’t want to work with, and you want them to stay away. But it is the truth. I promise. I think you probably know that too. You can probably think of several examples of people that were somewhat interested in working with you. And deep down you are thinking, Oh, geez, I hope that that doesn’t happen. Those are hardest clients. So in this digital world that we live in now here in 2022, which I cannot even believe that I’m saying it’s 2022 copy is important, because the words that you type are also the words that you say. So these are one in the same however, let’s just be honest, it probably didn’t used to be as critically important to know how to write decent copy as a business owner, as it is now, because of the nature of all of our digital life. Really, that’s the world we live in. And let’s just acknowledge it and embrace it. In fact, I love me some coffee. And I love talking about it because I only market and sell via email. This podcast is very new in my business. And I this little sidebar, I had planned on this podcast for a year and a half before I actually executed the podcast because I wanted to make sure that I was selling and articulating my ideas and marketing and doing a really good job with my copy before I introduced any other media, I think copy is the most important thing that we can be focusing on in our business. I believe that 1,000% So even though you’re listening to me on a podcast right now, let me tell you my true love. And my true focus most of the time is copy, you get my emails, you know that you get a lot of copy for me. And then I put a lot of time and attention into it for this exact reason. So I love talking about copy, you know this, copy, copy, copy. And I should also tell you that my copy used to suck, let me tell you, it did not start off is very good copy that was compelling, and that people wanted to read. So if you’re not a writer, and this copy talk right now is stressing you out, just stick with me. I’m going to convert you to a believer, I promise. In fact, the biggest breakthroughs that come from writing a lot of shitty copy, which gradually turns into kind of decent copy, by the way, and then eventually gets to be really great copy is that doing any of it forces your brain to articulate your unique ideas, and your philosophies and your processes in a new way. So this is what I love about copy. And these are this like unintended consequences of putting pen to paper or fingers to keyboard, whatever it is by writing copy, you make yourself think at a higher level, you might find that you have breakthroughs with being able to simplify complicated ideas or processes that seemed really elusive before, or maybe some intangible stuff that you’ve just haven’t been able to really grasp. Like how you would explain this and forcing yourself to write copy might be exactly what you need to simplify that in your own brain and then of course, to be able to explain that to your people. So believe me, writing copy to your easiest, most perfect dreamy clients is the best way to start creating intellectual property and are getting your ideas like getting that those gears in motion and getting unstuck if you are having any obstructions with your thought process or if you’re feeling stuck in any way writing copy is a great way to get the juices flowing again. I guess this isn’t what I want to say. And when you work with clients, we’re going to get back to hardest client for a second when you work with hardest clients that need constant hand holding And you’re chasing them down for payments. And they make endless excuses. And they aren’t really tuned into the process, and they’re not implementing what they say they’re going to do. And they’re just constantly needing you very needy clients, you get burned out. The reason this is important is because those are the hardest clients we’re talking about. And when you’re surrounded by hardest clients, your business is hard, and you dread seeing their emails pop up in your inbox, and you just don’t want to do that. Right? It doesn’t have to be that way. This is what we’re all kind of teasing out with our copy talk here, in the frame of easiest clients and hardest clients. So your copy the words that you say the words that you don’t say, should be always talking to your easiest clients and not your hardest clients. Does it make more sense as you start thinking about copy in particular, but I just want to make sure that you know that what you are writing, when you’re practicing your copy and getting better and better at it, it is speaking to your easiest clients, the ones that you want 100 of them right now, tomorrow, because they are the absolute best, those are the people you want to be talking to, because that’s who’s going to be tuning in a paying attention if that’s what you’re talking to. One of my students in my program said that with her easiest clients, she leaves each session feeling like she just wants, like I said, 100 more of them, and she’s way energized. And she could just do it all day. So I want you to feel like that too, with your easiest clients. Hardest clients, we know do not feel that way. It feels like a cringe moment when you see those emails come in. And we’re told, or we are somehow believing along the way that our business is so complicated, or that it’s so hard, or that it’s so draining to work with clients. But I’m telling you, none of that is true when you’re working with easiest clients. When you are working with hardest clients, everything is a battle. And they’re not really engaged. And they have to be convinced and convinced and convinced over and over again about why they even want to be working with you and why they want the results that they said they wanted. And to pay on time, when you’re convincing and convincing all of those things over and over again, it feels terrible. And of course your business is hard. And of course it’s draining to work with those clients. But it doesn’t have to be that way. So this was just a little reminder that we always want to be thinking about and talking to our easiest clients. So we have more of those, and not the hardest clients. So how do you get more of those easiest, perfect clients and repel the hardest ones, with the words that you say, and the copy you type? You know, I was gonna say that I’m repeating myself a lot, because I really, really want that to sink it. And do you know how you get really good at saying the words that bring in all the easiest clients that cannot wait to work with you and how you get really good at typing up copy that is like a dog whistle that only those best people can hear. You know, you do that. You practice it, you practice, you just do it, you just write some crap copy to begin with, and just, you just get better as you do it. And sure, there are a few pointers that can help too, especially when it comes to copy, which is why I have this bonus course I’m talking about that I just created for my students inside my program, where I do teach them some tactics and some some tips and tricks for copy. But at the end of the day, those are just that their tactics. So that can only get you so far. But do you know what else I teach in that bonus course that is way more lucrative than what phrases to use? And how to space, your text and those types of things? Well, it’s how to think about your copy, you knew that we had to talk about your brain at some point here, right? How do you think about your copy? How can you train yourself to think about your copy in a way that is going to translate into the absolute best clients coming to you from what you are saying and from people actually being helped by what you are typing. I teach you how to think about your people when you’re writing to them. That’s what I’m really interested in how you’re thinking about yourself and how you’re thinking about your people and how you’re thinking about their problems and what’s keeping them up at night. These are all things to write about. I’m interested in teaching you how to articulate the results that those clients want, that probably seem really impossible to them right now. But they are possible. And how can you inspire them to believe that? What do you know that they don’t know yet.

Andrea Nordling 14:17
I want to teach you how to understand your mindset around your message and whatever it is that you’re trying to convey. And then understand how it’s coming through and what you’re writing and how they’re receiving it. This is why I teach how to evaluate your copy afterwards for all of these things, so that you get better at writing it and you get faster at writing it. Because that’s another thing too. We don’t have all day to be writing one email got to get faster at it. We have to be better at it. But the only way to do that is by kind of being bad and slow in the beginning, just going to tell you but it’s totally worth it. This whole copy thing is very, very important. And it’s not really a theory. That copy is important as I was putting together my thoughts for this episode. I kept thinking about the invention of the printing press. So then I even did a little Google search. And I was like, what year did the printing press come into play? That was 1440, my friend, which, as we know, pretty much made the Protestant Reformation of thing, because for the first time in history, information could be passed via printed pamphlets, Pan Flitz. Pamphlets. Can’t say the word oh my gosh, pamphlets in written copy. Okay, finally, people could have written word in pamphlets, I can see this word in my brain, and I could spell it and for some reason, it will not come up, my friend. That was even in 1440, when most of the world couldn’t read. And yet, it was still important that people were printing their ideas and passing it around, and it was spreading. So I mean, do I think that writing compelling copy is kind of important in 2022, when all of your potential ideal clients have a smartphone in their pocket? Yes, they do. And then we don’t have to say the word pamphlet anymore. So that’s also great. Oh, my gosh, I do have a story about some bad copy. So my best friend is single and would love to be dating. But she has found that it is a minefield to try to find people on dating apps. It’s just appalling and awful to her. And I, I’ll be honest, I didn’t really believe her that it could be that bad at first. So at some point, early in this journey, I commandeered her phone one night for a few hours. And I just started swiping. And I said, like, let’s just be patient. I’ll do it for you. And that over and I started swiping. Oh, my goodness, I don’t even know what else to say. Online dating is a sales copy. Nightmare. absolute nightmare. I’m sure at least some of the guys on this app with it for several apps. Actually, I thought maybe it was an app problem. I thought maybe it was a clientele problem. I really dove into this, like tried to explore it tried multiple apps, multiple avenues. And the conclusion that I came to which she said, I’ve been trying to tell you this is the case is that I’m sure there are great guys on there. And they’re decent prospects and probably would be great to date. But we’ll never know now, will we because of the horrific copy on their profiles. And, again, when I was preparing this episode, and think about what I wanted to talk about, I was thinking about copy flops, and that was a big one that stood out in my mind. So can someone listening to this, please, just go make a bajillion dollars solely writing copy for every guy’s online dating profile that would help humanity in several different ways. Just start writing them for them. Because that is a terrible, terrible situation.

Andrea Nordling 17:53
And in a roundabout way, as I say that, I want to get back to the topic of marketing not being convincing. Because I do you see a lot of copy that is written in a desperate and salesy and super convincing tone. And I think this kind of ties into the dating example, when you’re marketing in a way that’s super convincing, and grasping and desperate, it’s only going to speak to those hardest clients. We’ve already discussed this. So the only people that are going to tune into that are the people that have to be convinced, right. And then you probably don’t actually want to be working with people that have to be convinced. It’s completely antithetical. It’s just like those poorly written desperate, grasping online dating profiles, that is only going to attract the most desperate gaspee potential dates. My bestie that I just told you about is an easiest client for anyone, let me tell you in the dating pool, she is very attractive and put together and smart and articulate. And she checks all of the boxes as like the perfect date that someone could have. But they’ll never know. Because they’re going to be attracting the desperate and grasp be individuals that are going to be coming to the copy written on those profiles. It’s just not it’s not going to work out very well for them. Well, maybe that’s the goal. I’m not really sure. Anyway, I should probably put out the word on the podcast about exactly what kind of guy she’s looking for. And we should start spreading the word. Maybe I’ll check with her and see how she feels about that before I before I lay out all of her criteria on here. But it’s a good thought. Right? All the personal recommendations are always a good idea. Okay, back to a roundabout way. But back to our main path here, which is the main issue at hand being don’t have a convincing tone in your marketing. It’s always going to be drawing in the hardest clients. And that’s not who you want to be working with. So if you take nothing else from this episode, please start editing your copy and evaluating your conversations as well with this one question. Am I trying to convince people that are reading this to work with me, or if it’s an in person conversation was I trying to convince this person to work with me? Because no convincing, when you’re creating clients with your words and your copy, and you’re speaking to your easiest, perfect clients, you are not convincing them. Those are not the same thing. Convincing is spammy and patronizing and desperate and feels really icky for both parties. As we know, because we’ve been on the receiving end of that a time or two, I don’t teach that kind of marketing that convert the client at all costs, feeling ill gross, what I teach, and what I want you to embrace is how to create so much value and possibility for your people that they don’t ever need to be convinced. They’re just ready. They’re just here. They’re raising their hand like, Yep, let’s do this. Those perfect ideal clients are coming to you, and asking, How can I work with you? And when do we start? Those are people that do not need to be convinced that’s creating clients not convincing at all. It’s also what great copy can do my friend. So I, you know, I’m gonna bring this back to copy at least 100 times. This episode. Here’s an example from my business. As I was thinking about this, I don’t convince my clients to want to have a health and wellness business, that would be an absolutely terrible use of my time. Not to mention, there’s, I don’t, I don’t do that I don’t convince them of that. The clients that would be showing up if I was trying to convince them that that was a good idea. And that that was right in their life, the clients that would show up from that convincing energy, that cheerleading energy, they wouldn’t even get results, because honestly, they haven’t decided that they want the results that I offer, which is a profitable business. And that scenario would be very frustrating for both of us. Which is why convincing is never in the best interest of you or your clients. If you have to convince them to want the results that you’re gonna help them get, they’re never going to actually get the results. They don’t need to be convinced. When I think about this in my business instead of a roomful of people that expect me to reconvince them of their decisions every single week, the clients that I create, from my words in my copy, they are resourceful, they are motivated, and they’re already committed to getting the results, which is a profitable business, they’re already doing that one way or the other. They just want to do it faster and easier and have more fun along the way. I don’t need to convince them though, that they want to do that. Do you see the distinction? It’s subtle, but it’s everything for your clients to your perfect clients already know that they want the results you help them get. They might not know how to get the results. Or they might not even truly believe that they can do it. But they want it. They have the desire. They may doubt themselves. They made up the process. They may doubt a lot of things but they want it. You don’t need to convince them. They don’t want to be convinced either. By the way, isn’t that a relief? Want to really let that soak in your business isn’t an infomercial, where you have to hook them in the first 30 seconds and quick get their credit card information before they wake up out of a trance and then realize that they don’t actually want this after all? No. I mean, I’m kind of kidding when I say that, but not really.

Andrea Nordling 23:04
For many of my students, that’s the kind of scenario that comes to mind when they think of marketing their business until they learn how to do this properly. So if that’s kind of how you feel about marketing is like tricking or convincing. No, no, no, no marketing is fun. Marketing is where you get to help people and inspire them with what’s possible for them before any money has even exchanged hands. For any of that has happened. It’s where you get to show them what’s possible, and you get to help them. This is just one of the fundamentals of creating perfect clients when you adopt this mindset that you can’t or shouldn’t even try to convince people. Your entire business will change just from this one thing, because you won’t feel desperate or grasping or salesy. When you talk about your business or your offer, you’re going to say words that are very inspiring to people because you’re not going to feel salesy and achy about it, you’re going to just speak from the heart, you want to help them you’re going to speak about your business differently about you differently. Can you just feel yourself like standing taller, and that just the relief, just being able to talk about what you do in a really, in a really just confident just a really confident way. Because you’ll know that talking about your business and your offer is in service to those people, it actually helps them. They want you to tell them exactly how you can help them and exactly what they need to do next. They want that they’re sitting there raising their hand going Yes, yes, please, more, more of that. What do we do? Come on, tell me tell me you can help me. It’s basically what those easiest clients are doing. So you won’t shy away from sales conversations at all. When you adopt this because you know that the person you’re talking to they already want to invest. They might just have a few clarifying questions. Totally normal, but they’re there because they want the result. They want you to help them. So you’re going to be calm and confident every time you talk about your services. And you tell them your rates. Your clients are going to get even better results because As they deeply want the transformation, they aren’t just going through the motions, because you convince them and they didn’t know what else to do. That’s a terrible feeling for all parties. And that’s never going to be the kind of business that you want to run or the kind of business that will consistently make money be sustainable grow and thrive. Because a business that’s built on convincing energy that isn’t scalable, that doesn’t get referrals. That’s icky. You don’t want that. I know you don’t want that, which is why you’re still listening to this episode. So always be thinking about your copy. And the words that you say, but really, I’m like, I’m kind of in the copies on today’s I’m talking copy when you’re evaluating your copy anywhere that you’re typing or writing copy, probably typing. Think, am I trying to convince someone with this? Or am I giving them value? Convincing is not the same as marketing. Convincing is not the same as inspiring. Convincing is no, everything else is yes. Some of this episode got it turned into a sales pitch for copywriting. All right, I’m leaning into it since that’s what I’ve been focusing all of my bandwidth on. And what I’ve been thinking so hard about and continuing to work with my students about in February, we have a live copy workshop that we’re going to be doing. And I’ve been thinking a lot about that. So anyway, you know that I think that writing copy any copy, but then improving it into really great copy is such a worthwhile use of your time, for your marketing and for your business. So if copywriting is high on your list of priorities right now, then you have to join us inside the profitable nutritionist program when the doors open up at the end of this month, there’ll be open January 28 to the 31st. And if you join us this month, you’ll be able to plug into the resources that are available, including that bonus course and the upcoming February workshop to grow that skill set and get better at your coffee. Alright, so now get back to work. Write some copy, and have a wonderful week. But seriously, go write some copy.

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I'm Andrea Nordling

Marketing + Sales Expert
I help Holistic Nutritionists and Health Coaches get more clients in the door, more profit in their pockets, and more freedom in their life without relying on social media.

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