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19. Imposter Syndrome Part 2: Growing Self-Confidence with Jackie Murphy

It is my absolute pleasure to introduce you to my friend, the ultimate Yoga Boss, Jackie Murphy.

Jackie is a business coach for yoga teachers, and we knew it was high time we did an episode together to talk about one of the biggest reasons wellness professionals in all modalities don’t grow their businesses: Imposter Syndrome

You do not want to miss the insights this discussion brought to light on all the sneaky ways this illusive “imposter syndrome” shows up for all of us, including where we both see it in OUR businesses.

Jackie hosts the Yoga Boss podcast which is definitely a must-listen for any yoga teacher…linked up below.

Enjoy!

Transcript

Andrea Nordling 0:00
So let’s talk imposter syndrome and confidence and lack of self confidence. And all of the sneaky ways that we pretend that we’re not ready when we are.

Jackie Murphy 0:12
Oh, yeah, how many hours do you have!?

So this is going to be absolutely amazing. I was thinking about this this morning, knowing that we were going to talk about this and really going through my brain. Because I’ve had clients this week, come to me and say, you know, I’ve started my business, I’m a few months in, and it’s not happening as fast as I want it to. And I’m starting to get disappointed, and I’m starting to feel less confident, and I am worried, I’m freaked out that something’s wrong. And I think this is a really common place people come into business with thinking that your confidence is gonna come from your business. Yeah, money you make from the likes you get from the sales calls, you get whatever it may be. And it doesn’t,

Andrea Nordling 1:05
it does not know it doesn’t. I know. And it doesn’t even come from more certifications, either. Which is the biggest bummer of all.

Jackie Murphy 1:17
You can stack up those papers.

Andrea Nordling 1:20
Yeah, you can have so many letters behind your name, and it still won’t make you feel confident.

Jackie Murphy 1:24
Yeah, yeah. So like, in your mind, what does

Andrea Nordling 1:33
I think that it’s, first of all, not judging the fact that you don’t have to feel confident to do it. And, and just understanding that, okay, I’m just probably not going to feel very confident with this, because I’ve never done it before. So that’s okay. And I’m confident in myself, I have the self confidence to know that I’m going to figure it out. And I’m not going to quit on myself. And then that’s a totally different conversation, just like I’m the kind of person that I’m resourceful. I’m going to figure this out, I’m going to keep trying, quitting isn’t an option, because I’m just going to figure this out. And I don’t even have any evidence that it’s going to work. But I just know that I’m the kind of person that figures things out when they don’t make sense.

Jackie Murphy 2:13
Yes, yeah. Do you ever have clients come in? Who don’t think they’re that type of person? Yes. Who think they’re the tall person that I don’t even know how my clients say it that they will give up or they don’t know if they’ll follow through?

Andrea Nordling 2:27
Yes. And one of the most fun things that we do is we just start collecting all of the evidence of other areas of their life that have nothing to do with business where they don’t quit. And other people admire how tenacious they are. And for holistic nutritionist, and this will be the same for Yogi’s too, it’s in your health, a lot of us are very protective of our health and prioritize that and people in our lives are so like envious isn’t the right word. But like they’re watching, they’re watching the dedication, they think it’s amazing. They’re like, I wish we could do that. And so we start and I’m sure you guys do the same thing. We start intentionally collecting evidence of places where you do hard things and don’t quit already, that have nothing to do with business, because it’s not separate. You’re not a different person, in your business are in other areas of your life.

Jackie Murphy 3:15
Good. So good. And I think too, especially with the health, for so many yoga teachers, it just comes so easily. Like, of course, we’re going to go practice, of course, we’re going to move our bodies, of course, we’re going to drink water, that we forget that what’s so easy for us isn’t so easy for other people. And so it’s like what comes easily to you that you do consistently that you don’t give up on that you do follow through with. Don’t discredit it or gloss over it.

Andrea Nordling 3:45
Yeah, talk about it more. Yeah. Yeah,

Jackie Murphy 3:49
it shows you where you are the kind of person that no matter what is gonna show up is gonna follow through. And I even go to like the super granular examples for my clients, like you brush your teeth every day. You know, like you’re following through on that dental hygiene even to the point where like, you don’t have to think about it. Yes. You’re very confident

Andrea Nordling 4:07
in yourself that you’re gonna figure out how to remember your toothbrush when you go on vacation. Yeah, very common.

Jackie Murphy 4:13
Or if you don’t you figure it out, you’re going to apply it to fresh. Yes. Like, when I was thinking about it, I was thinking that self confidence really boils down to having trust in yourself. Like, that’s it. And it’s not that you’re a person that has trust with yourself or you’re not. It’s that you look for the evidence to find where you do have that trust with yourself and then build from there.

Andrea Nordling 4:39
Yeah, 100% I think I love the question you asked about, like, how many people come in with this line communist. I think everybody seriously, I think everybody on some level thinks. I just don’t really know enough about x. And so I’m going to shore up that like I’m going to learn more about this and then I’m going to be confident and then I’m going to be able to get to the next level, even people that are really successful in their business already are still looking for the next thing, like, but when i Master that thing, then I’ll be so confident that I can handle anyone that comes my way then. And it’s just remembering like you said, No, it’s those basics that comes so naturally that seem like they’re too foundational to even talk about because everybody knows it. Those are the things that the people don’t really know that they want to hear you talk about all the time. Hmm.

Jackie Murphy 5:26
Okay, I’m curious for your people, what is the x that they’re going for? Because I bet it’s the same across industries, like what are they looking? What do they think they need to know, the advanced

Andrea Nordling 5:36
certifications? Like they need to know literally everything that’s going to come up in someone’s body? And what to do when that process is, if it isn’t possible to go and Google it or take out a textbook and find the answer. When that happens?

Jackie Murphy 5:50
Right? It’d be like, I’ll get right back to you hold on for a moment. Yes. thing with yoga teachers are like, if I can’t help every single person, every single body do yoga, then I can’t show up. Right? And it’s like, wait a second,

Andrea Nordling 6:04
wait a second, aren’t you a pretty resourceful human that will figure out how to help that person. And let’s just take it out in the wild and test it out and realize that those anomalies and those, like those times when you just really are stumped are so rare, because it’s the basics. It’s just the basics over and

Jackie Murphy 6:23
over. Yeah, it’s it’s totally like the advanced certification. That’s what they want the knowledge, you think the knowledge is going to build the confidence. And it’s so fascinating, because actual confidence comes from your willingness to be like, I don’t know the answer to this. And be willing to say that to a student or to a client and figure it out for them. And like, that’s true confidence, like I don’t know right now.

Andrea Nordling 6:46
And like how much when you say that I just got so inspired about how beautiful that is for that client or that student, that they’re like, oh, maybe that doesn’t even matter? Because she doesn’t even know the answer to that. Yeah. And like off the top of our heads, maybe that’s not even a big deal.

Jackie Murphy 7:02
Yeah. Yeah. Which I think you do a great job of teaching your people that. Keep it simple. Like, don’t teach your clients and your students everything you need to know, immediately. Everything that you know, in your brain, just teach them exactly what is necessary and what they need to know right now, which is the same thing that I teach my clients, it’s keep it simple. Again, it goes back to like, what comes easily to you isn’t easy to them, and make it so they can understand it break down this concept that you spent how many hours studying and learning and getting the certification for in a way that’s like, super digestible, super easy. Yeah, that’s gonna help them more

Andrea Nordling 7:44
drink water, eat a vegetable, or to evaluate how you feel after the

Jackie Murphy 7:52
repeat. Right?

Andrea Nordling 7:55
We could take it to the next level later, let’s let’s master those words.

Jackie Murphy 7:58
So good. Okay, so they’re going after advanced certifications? What about when it comes to business? What are they looking for? What do they think they need to know that they don’t know?

Andrea Nordling 8:08
They think they need to know. Like, exactly how to handle a business, like a huge business three years from now right now. Right? They can’t get started. Right. So it’s like almost a fear of growth, like I’m gonna grow my level of understanding of bookkeeping, and how to leverage my time. And all of those things are, like seem near, even though it’s not like, that’s not a problem we need to handle right now. Yeah, and not having the confidence to know that you’ll figure it out when you need to

Jackie Murphy 8:37
write it goes back to like, I’ll figure this out. When it’s time to. I see, in a similar way, like, I need to have the funnel set up and like the strategy to handle like an influx of 1000, people wouldn’t really be like, we just need to get 10 people, we just need to start with 10. And then knowing that that will come. So it’s almost like a piece of self confidence, trusting yourself to figure it out, but also trusting that the universe or however you want to say it, if you’re not that kind of person, is going to provide you with what you need when you need it. Like you will learn the skills that you need at the time that you need it.

Andrea Nordling 9:17
I also think okay, so I don’t know how familiar everyone will be with this. But you and I are in a mastermind together. And that’s how we met each other. So when you say that what I think of is like even the self confidence to know, I will put myself in the right room and surround myself with the people that I need to when that time comes. I know exactly where to find this information and help from people who’ve already done it. When I get to that advanced stage right now I need to put myself in a room with people that are at my level and they can help me just get going right now. They already know what I need to do.

Jackie Murphy 9:47
Yeah. And the way that you said it was perfect, like when the time comes. I’ll do the thing. What you didn’t say is when I feel ready because the time might come and you Do not feel ready. But yeah, anyway.

Andrea Nordling 10:03
Yes. And that’s the self confidence. Like I know that even though I don’t feel ready, that’s just part of the deal. Yeah, but I’ll still figure it out. Yeah. Because you never feel ready. If your pattern is this is for all of us. And a reminder to me and you always, I think we always give ourselves, you’re never going to feel ready. Like there’s never a point where you just go, oh, yeah, I’m totally prepared. Yep, I’m doing this big thing in the world. It really matters. I feel really, like it’s important and necessary, and I’m totally prepared. No, you wouldn’t ever feel like that about anything. That’s a worthwhile endeavor,

Jackie Murphy 10:33
you just won’t know. And that’s true in life. Yeah. Right. Like

Andrea Nordling 10:38
parenting be parenting

Jackie Murphy 10:41
marriage. You just got to go into it. There’s another colleague in our mastermind, who her tagline is gag and go, and she’s just like, suck it up and go. gagging go. Like, so much of that is business, it comes down to you just being like, alright, I don’t feel ready, and I’m gonna decide to do this anyway. And then when you do, this is the fun kicker. And you show up and you take action, that’s when you build the confidence. That’s when more confidence comes. So it’s like, what comes first the chicken or the egg?

Andrea Nordling 11:13
The other? They do? They do? Okay, so something I do with my clients that’s really fun, is to take them out of the equation altogether. And we just talk about successful people, quote, unquote, successful people. So we’re like, let’s talk about successful people, the ones that already have the results that you want, like, how do they think and how do they deal with these imposter syndrome? Thoughts? I think that’s really fun. Because inevitably, the answers are always like, Oh, they just do it anyway, they were scared. But they just, they just showed up. They were consistent. They did it anyway. And they’re just like, they did it anyway, they. It feels so different in our own businesses and in our own brains. It feels very real like No, no, you don’t understand. I don’t have X certification yet. I’m not I don’t I haven’t worked with clients yet. So at some point, that person hadn’t worked with clients, either. I hadn’t worked with clients at some point, either. You hadn’t worked with clients or taught a class at some point either. Yeah. So. So I liked like taking yourself out of the equation and just thinking about the quote, unquote, successful people and like, oh, so what do they do differently?

Jackie Murphy 12:21
Yeah. And it is just like they did it. They just, yeah, yeah, I did. I think it’s so interesting to when you think about, quote, unquote, successful people, I also don’t want people to imagine that those people don’t have imposter syndrome. 100%. Like, it never goes away. And every level of your business, it’s there at every level of your career, it’s there. And so it’s like, you got to invite it in. I tell my clients, like give it a seat at your board of directors. Speak up, if it wants to, it has an opinion. But then you just you decide what to do with the business you get to your CEO, your boss. So it’s not something you need to solve or fix or cure before you take action before you go into business at all.

Andrea Nordling 13:11
No, yeah, you just need to expect that it’s going to be there. I also think a fun thing to do is to spend a little time with each level of growth that you’re going to have. So in the beginning of your business, I think about oh, when I’ve made my first 50k And then after that, like my first 100 200 And think about how is because you know your own patterns, you know, your own brain, think about okay, now, how is imposter syndrome going to show up then? And just predict it? You know exactly what you’re going to be thinking, you know, it’s not going to be a surprise, very predictable. We all have our established patterns. Mm hmm. For me, it’s always it’s not enough or it’s not fast enough. Yeah. Like it’s not, it’s just not, it should have been quicker like this, this success has been quicker though.

Jackie Murphy 13:54
I have that tool. I’m like, if they can grow that fast, and why am I not growing that fast? And I see so many of my clients have it too. And I think it’s a little bit for me like thinking, if I’m not the fastest, which is so weird that I’m not like worthy of the success I have, like it definitely like is correlated, like the fastest is the best and faster is better. And like, where do we think we learned that?

Andrea Nordling 14:19
Exactly, exactly. But we know our patterns. Yeah. So I so I’ll think about like, Okay, so at 500k How is that going to show up? And then I know exactly what it’s gonna sound like, it’s not gonna be a surprise, like, Okay, so at a million at two minute, whatever that is, like those next levels. I can already tell you exactly what imposter syndrome is gonna sound like in my version, my own little recipe of it. Mm hmm. So maybe a surprise, it’s just gonna be there. Yeah. Sitting on the board of directors. I love that.

Jackie Murphy 14:48
Does it sound the same at every level for you? Or does it say different things?

Andrea Nordling 14:52
It says different things. It’s more of the speed and the efficiency like efficiency in my brain is above all else. We have to be And then we have to be productive. So my version of imposter syndrome is like, well, sure you’re successful and you figure things out, but you should be able to figure it out faster. Definitely, ever be in indecision about anything ever. That’s very inefficient. So we’re gonna judge the hell out of the method at which the success came. Because that’s my that’s my flavor. Yeah. Isn’t that lovely? It’s so fun. It’s so much fun. But it’s so it actually kind of is fun. Because then I start to look at Oh, like, where, where’s this showing up in other areas of my life? This is not going fast enough. This, it should be better. I can find the pattern in parenting, I can find the pattern in my health journey. I can find the pattern in my marriage. I can see it everywhere.

Jackie Murphy 15:49
Oh, it really is everywhere. I’m thinking about I had my baby a year ago. And I’m thinking about my relationship with my body. And then definitely showing up there thinking like, Well, I’m a year postpartum. So why don’t I have my abs back?

Andrea Nordling 16:03
Hmm.

Jackie Murphy 16:05
Instead of just like, it’s so unusual to wish it was faster, it slows you down? Yes, I’m sitting here mad about the way that I look or the way like it’s more my muscle muscle, I don’t have the same muscle I used to. And when I’m mad about the muscle mass that I have, you know what I’m not doing, working out your muscle mass.

Andrea Nordling 16:28
Knowing that you’re you have all of this self confidence that you’ll get it back.

Jackie Murphy 16:32
Yeah. Right. Not trusting myself not allowing. So it happens in the same way in business. Like anytime I’m pushing to get there faster. I get frantic, I get scattered. I get stuck in doing the things that actually slow me down. Mm hmm. Like comparison, the self doubt the self judgment, like none of that makes you money,

Andrea Nordling 16:58
right. Complicating the systems adding in new email funnels, doing trying to make the website better. Looking at New certifications, like all,

Jackie Murphy 17:10
like looking for the shortcut, and believing that there is a shortcut to get you somewhere faster. And you’re trying to find that compared to staying on your path. And making money your way and actually enjoying the walk right? enjoying the journey as you go. Yeah, versus thinking you can sneak out. And

Andrea Nordling 17:30
then that’s even goes back to the trust in yourself that the things that come so easily and naturally to you, that seems so basic that you don’t even want to talk about them. Because it’s like, well, everybody knows this. And it’s too easy. trusting yourself that those are the things that people need to hear about. That’s why they’re already tuned into anything you’re saying. So they want to know about what comes easily to you and trusting that and trusting that you can do it your way.

Jackie Murphy 17:54
Mm hmm. Okay, what do you think about the people who think confidence or self confidence is similar to arrogance? And how would you help them like, distinguish between the two?

Andrea Nordling 18:08
Oh, do we have to distinguish between the two of them? I feel like you can have both. So arrogance, I think has just a negative connotation. Yeah. But I wasn’t really sure if I don’t know, I’m not sure if I believe it should, as were, as you know, like, I don’t know, couldn’t you just be super confident that you could help people and some people decide that that’s arrogant, and then some people think it’s so refreshing, and they’re like, Thank you, you can help me I’m not broken.

Jackie Murphy 18:36
It’s so good that you just said that. Like, first of all, you can’t control what people think. Yeah, about you. So of course, when you’re confident some people are gonna think you’re arrogant, and vice versa. So I think it matters more what you’re telling yourself, like, Do you are you telling yourself that you’re confident you’re telling yourself in a negative connotation in a negative way? It’s arrogance. And then what? Yeah, like, why would you? Why would you do that?

Andrea Nordling 19:01
Okay, that no, that’s so juicy, though talking about the people’s interpretation of confidence and self confidence can be arrogant. Yeah. And that’s okay. Mm hmm. And those people were never gonna buy anyway, by the way,

Jackie Murphy 19:14
right? Any word because they’re,

Andrea Nordling 19:17
they’re too. They’re too concerned about, like the how the message is getting delivered to really want the result of working with you.

Jackie Murphy 19:26
Yeah, they’re, they’re too busy judging and criticizing, which is just the human affliction like everyone does. It’s no big deal. That they’re not going after getting the result. They they’re not thinking about themselves. They’re thinking about other people. So

Andrea Nordling 19:43
they’re just thinking, like, am I broken? Or can you actually help me? I’ve had clients say, I’ve referenced this in a few emails lately, because it popped into my head and it was so funny when it happened. I had a nutrition client. When we right before we started working together, we were fleshing out the details. Was she a good fit was a good fit. She told me, I’m just wanting you to know I’m a total lemon. I mean, I actually died. But I’ve thought of that. So recently I’ve been doing a lot of emails about this and thinking about the thoughts our clients think, honestly, they think I’m a lemon. I’m not sure not. I’m not sure if you’re qualified to help me but their thought really is I Am I too far gone? Like I don’t even know. So work from because I think I’m totally broken. Yeah. That as questioning if, if they think we can actually help and that’s like nine times out of 10 not even what they’re thinking.

Jackie Murphy 20:33
I just love that. She called herself a

Andrea Nordling 20:35
woman. She got total lemon. It was fantastic.

Jackie Murphy 20:39
I’m a lemon just so you know, like, disclaimer, like, everything

Andrea Nordling 20:42
is wrong with me. I’m a total lemon.

Jackie Murphy 20:45
Oh, I also have clients too that like, almost want to argue for their livingness in a way like they want to be. Not they actually want to be but they mistakenly think that their brain or their problems or their more. unfed, helpful. I don’t know if that’s a word but more for gone and other clients than like other people. They’re like, but you don’t understand. Like, it’s my I’ve

Andrea Nordling 21:12
been doing this for years, and I’ve never been able to make enough money. Yeah,

Jackie Murphy 21:17
yeah. It’s like, there’s no, no, I have evidence to really show you, it’s me. Not gonna work. The problem is me. And I just have so much compassion for that place. Because I was also there. At one point in time, I thought my brain was broken. And it was gonna take like years of therapy for me to be able to do in create what I want to create my life. And it’s a place of really, like, it’s opposite of self confidence. It’s like self loathing. Yeah. And it’s super hard to be there. And I think when you stop the journey to fix yourself, or you stop even spending any effort and time believing that you need fixing, or need healing, that’s when you’re actually free. Mm hmm. And then you can go create what you want. That’s so good. Yeah. And it’s truly like everyone listening. It’s not you. You are not the one person who can’t do it. No, if you’re

Andrea Nordling 22:16
listening, you’re for sure a person that can do it. If you’re even tuning in to try to figure out how to do it better. You’re already doing it.

Jackie Murphy 22:24
Yes. So true. You’re already figuring it out.

Andrea Nordling 22:27
You are figuring it out.

Jackie Murphy 22:30
I just love that. Like that’s true across both industries, right? Like, it’s not that yoga teachers have this specific problem or that nutritionists have this specific problem. And we know it’s not coaches, it’s it’s like, doesn’t matter what you call yourself the same problems show up? Yes.

Andrea Nordling 22:49
everywhere, everywhere, in all areas of your life business is just like the quickest path to bringing up all of your stuff. Would you start a business? Did you start saying I can help you and you’re gonna pay me for it? It just is like the fast track to bringing up all of the inadequate thoughts that you had that were already there?

Jackie Murphy 23:06
Yes. And like, there’s no need for you to do that alone. No, it’s not fun to bring up all that stuff, and not have a group of people being like, hey, here’s how we get through that. Don’t listen to that. And it really does, I call it like the best self discovery, the best self study you could ever do is try and build a business be an entrepreneur.

Andrea Nordling 23:27
It really is, it really is. And there’s so many people in the world. And it’s totally fine. No judgment on this. But there’s so many people that never want to do that, that never want to push what’s possible and really go for big things, that’s totally fine. But those people won’t feel that kind of discomfort, because it just getting out of your comfort zone. And really going for something that you want is going to bring up this stuff. And it’s uncomfortable for a lot of people and it’s like it’s new, and you have to have self confidence that you’re gonna figure it out, and that you can feel totally unworthy, totally unprepared, and very not ready and still do it and not die from that feeling. And when you do that, so much is waiting for you. But it is it’s hard. I think where I’m going with this is it’s hard for a lot of people in our personal lives to understand these emotions. Because for someone that doesn’t want to pursue a big goal or a big dream and really put themselves in a position of feeling a lot of discomfort. They just don’t understand. They just really don’t it’s not that they aren’t supportive. We coach a lot in my program. And I bet you do too about unsupportive spouses or, or people in my life that aren’t supportive. It’s like they’re probably actually not unsupportive. They just truly don’t get it. They just don’t get it. That’s okay. So when you are surrounded by people who do actually get it and are just normalizing all of these thoughts, all of the imposter syndrome all of the I’m going to be ready when sentence and fill in the blank after that, when that just becomes totally normal to talk about you realize that very successful People are having those exact same thoughts, but they’re just doing it anyway. And it’s not a big deal. It just normalizes it so much. I think there’s there’s a lot of comfort in that.

Jackie Murphy 25:09
And those people in your life who can’t relate or just don’t understand the experience that you’re having, or not the people you should turn to for business advice.

Andrea Nordling 25:19
It’s those are the people that will tell you that you need to do a discount. And they love you. And they just want you to be successful. So they’re just telling you to just discount your services a little bit and run a BOGO. And that’s not helpful.

Jackie Murphy 25:35
Please don’t do that. So many of my clients, I experienced this too, like telling my parents I was going to be a yoga teacher, they’re like, huh, are you sure? Like, is that a thing? And my clients will ask people that they love and care about like, what should I do in my business? Do you think this will work? Do you think my yoga business will work? And it’s just so interesting, that’s where our brain wants to go to go get that external validation from the people we love the most. And the only reason why is because we want to feel safe going after our dreams. And we think that safety and that confidence comes from people outside of us. And it just yeah, it can’t. It doesn’t.

Andrea Nordling 26:13
It can’t because if you’re looking from buy in from anyone in your personal life, you’re also going to be looking for buy in from clients, like your brain is already telling you it’s this little warning flag that saying just so you know, if people don’t say yes, right away, or if this doesn’t work exactly how we think it’s going to right away. That means that it’s not going to work, because we don’t have buy in from anybody else. We need other people to say, Yep, that was a good idea. Here’s some money. Otherwise, all is lost. We’re wrong. Mm hmm. Little warning flag.

Jackie Murphy 26:46
Yeah. And it’s so interesting, like, what parameter Have you put on your business? To tell you whether or not it’s gonna work? Or not? Like, is it a length of time? Is it three months? Six months? Is it a certain amount of money? Is it a certain amount of clients? Is it a certain amount of feedback from clients, and being on to where your brain is searching for that? Is just that awareness is going to help you realize like, wait a second, let me reshift my focus to as long as it takes no matter what, as many skills as I need to learn, no matter how many evaluations I need to do, I’m going to make this work. And it can work. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrea Nordling 27:28
I like this. I like this thought, like, how would you approach this? This micro situation? If it’s like one example, or the macro, just your business as a whole? How would you approach this? If quitting wasn’t an option? at all, if that seriously wasn’t even one of the things that could possibly happen, then what you would do?

Jackie Murphy 27:48
Yeah, and I just want to add to that, like, quitting someone option, but can we also talk about like changing your price and changing your offer that not being an option? Yes. Because that off the table too, you’re going to solve a much different problem. You’re going to solve your selling problem, your marketing problem, instead of trying to solve for what isn’t actually the problem.

Andrea Nordling 28:10
It’s so true. We just coached on this yesterday, I was coaching some of my higher earners in my program, who are at the stage now where they have a lot of evidence of success, and their brain is like, okay, but we let’s make a problem here where there isn’t a problem, because we’re still having some of these thoughts. And so let’s change our offer. Yeah. No, no, no, no, that’s not going to fix this problem. That where your brain is telling you it’s coming too easy. I’m making too much money. It this has to be harder. Can we talk about that for a minute about some money guilt?

Jackie Murphy 28:46
Yes.

Andrea Nordling 28:48
Let’s because all of our people have some level of money guilt. I have it. I don’t know if you have it, but I like I definitely can see that come up sometimes much less than it used to, because I’ve worked a lot on that. But it’s there.

Jackie Murphy 29:01
Yeah. Right. And it’s like, imposter syndrome had a baby. And that baby is called Money guilt. Yeah. It just kind of comes with it, right? Like feeling guilty for making the money that you want to make or even dreaming that you want to make more money and like deciding that you’re worthy of that deciding that’s a possibility for you. The guilt is going to present itself as an option. Yes, for sure. And it’s just coming from the imposter syndrome thinking that you’re not worthy of it, or you don’t really deserve it. Or like, I don’t know, you

Andrea Nordling 29:36
don’t know how to take care of it properly. You don’t understand it, and you’re not. So you shouldn’t have it. Yeah, at least it or something like that.

Jackie Murphy 29:44
Yeah. Which is fascinating. And I think it’s really cool when you decide and it really is just a decision to not indulge in that guilt. It’s similar to mine. Guilt. Like, I can always guilt myself for not spending more time with my son or for not making the dinner, the most healthy dinner in the whole world, like there’s a million different things I could choose to opt into to guilt myself on. And society has taught a lot of us that that is the option we should take. And it doesn’t make me a better mom. It doesn’t make me show up in the way I want to show up, it makes me show up in my head worried, stressed out freaked out that I’m not doing enough. And money guilt is the same. It’s the exact same like there are lots of options and opportunities for you to go down the road of feeling guilty for making money of not knowing what to do with it not knowing how to have it not being willing to make more. But why why would you?

Andrea Nordling 30:50
It’s such a good question. So I see this come up, I bet you hear a lot of the same things. I’m thinking of a few specific examples recently of like, well, I don’t actually need my business to be that successful because blank. So it’s like, because my husband’s job, like pays our bills, or because I already have a job. And it’s very lucrative or like, you know, fill in the blank of like, I don’t actually need more. So I’m letting myself off the hook on this big dream of mine. And because of that actually starving. Ah, yes. What Why do we do this to ourselves? Because we just all agree that we’re going to not do that anymore.

Jackie Murphy 31:22
Yeah, seriously, at the way it comes up for my clients to they’ll say like, I don’t really care about the money.

Andrea Nordling 31:30
Yeah, like, that’s so noble. That’s such a lie. By the way, yes, you do care about the money through not because you’re a hideous materialistic person that doesn’t want to actually help people. They’re not mutually exclusive. But also, because you want to have freedom in your life freedom in how you spend your time freedom in where you send your kids to school freedom in what you are able to invest in your own house. There’s a lot of ways that freedom manifests in our life in very important ways. And it’s okay to want it and money buys a lot of it. money buys us choices.

Jackie Murphy 32:08
Yeah. Yeah. Like it’s okay to care about the money. Mm hmm. And it doesn’t mean anything about you as a person if you do or if you don’t. And the other thing I hear from yoga teachers a lot is like, Okay, well, if I make money, then I’m going to give all of it back. Yes. I’m not going to let myself have it. Yep. And you don’t have to do that. Either. Like, yes, you can choose to give back if you want to, but it’s totally okay for you to let money sit in your bank account or invest it? Or buy yourself a fancy purse or like, spend it the way you want to spend it. Yes.

Andrea Nordling 32:42
Go on a Gucci retreat that you’ve been wanting to go on? Yeah, on my bucket list. Oh, I want to do some events that I haven’t ever done before.

Jackie Murphy 32:52
Why? Why would you spend your money on that? I’m asking like you personally. So

Andrea Nordling 32:57
I have a story that comes up a lot in various places in my life, this is one way that I can see my brain’s patterns is that I have to earn my rest. Yeah, like I have to get to x metric first in whatever that is. And this can be like monetary, it can be client results. It can be health wise, it can be like weight loss wise, there’s all sorts of different ways that I can wrap this up for myself, but I need to earn my rest by hitting X metric. And then I will be allowed to slow down to take care of myself to take a breath to go on a vacation just for me, like,

Jackie Murphy 33:35
fill in the blank. Hmm, that’s so good. So it shows you like just hearing that from you that money is your teacher in that regard. And spending money is your teacher like that’s, that is the way that you’re going to allow yourself to learn the lesson of being able to rest first. Yeah, if you want to. And thinking of money that way is very different than thinking of money as just like cash in your wallet. Yeah, and

Andrea Nordling 34:03
also because you don’t ever arrive at an amount of money that where your brain just relaxes, it’s just a new set of problems. So you wherever you go, there you are. And I remember people telling me this, but I thought, Hmm, I’m not really sure about that. So in the early part of my nutrition business, it was like, Okay, if I was making 10k a month, consistently, we’d be good. Like, I could just really, that’s where I need to get to. And then I got there. And guess what? It still wasn’t enough. I was like, oh, no, but we can do more. We can do it faster, we can help more people. We could fill in the blank, whatever that was. And then it was like, No, it needs to be 20k a month. And then it needed to be 30. And now I’m like, Oh, I see. If I don’t change my thoughts about this. It’s really going to always be there and I’m really feeling that and looking at my thoughts about having to earn my rest having to just enjoy the having the success and not trying to get to the next level. cuz it just is, it’s just like having this goes back to everything we were talking about. It’s like having the confidence in myself, that I’m actually enough right now, actually am successful right now today without doing anything more. And like having that self confidence that when when I decide I want to go further, I will have the resourcefulness to figure out how to do that. But I don’t have to prove it to myself or anyone else right now.

Jackie Murphy 35:24
Yeah, it’s also so much more attractive. Like it, I don’t know, when you sell or when you mark it. When you do that from the place of I’m just trying to hit my next goal so that I can feel good. Your people pick up on that. Mm hmm. Versus if you’re coming from like, I’m, I’m genuinely loving my life. And I’m selling and marketing, it’s going to be so much more attractive to your people. And I think for both of our industries, you could lump us into the wellness industry, would you? Is that? Okay? Oh, yeah, make sure you agree. And I kind of think about this idea of like, you gotta walk, walk your talk. If you’re going to business in the wellness industry, your life needs to be an example of wellness. And that doesn’t mean just physically but mentally emotionally, like, how well are you feeling? How well are you allowing yourself to feel on a day to day basis? And that come through?

Andrea Nordling 36:22
Yes, and I see this for my clients, I may definitely see this in myself. And then no surprise, it shows up in my clients as they are just reflecting this belief back to me. So I see this. It’s a theme we’re working on. But I see my clients also will come I’m sure yours are very much the same. Because we do have, you know, very similar brains in our heads, where it’s like, I, I don’t want to build my business because I think it’ll, it’ll like make me sick, or I’ll have a flare up in my health, I can’t possibly because on some level, we equate having a business with like being a hustler, a grinder like 80 hours a week, this will be the only priority in my life. If I have a business, that’s also a story that I think keeps a lot of people from really simplifying and figuring out how to make their business their own and the way that they want it to be because it’s it’s easier to just stay stuck in this belief that there is no way to figure out how to have a simple business where I also take care of myself, Hmm,

Jackie Murphy 37:20
yes, it shows up for my clients in I don’t have time. And a lot of the clients that are still working their nine to five and building their business on the side. And thinking if I have the business, I’m going to need hours and hours and hours and exactly what you just said like, no, no, just ask yourself, like how can I keep this easy, simple, create the money that I want. And however many hours you want, like you get to choose. Mm, and just pick and then from there,

Andrea Nordling 37:50
and you will have no evidence when you’re starting out that that is possible or that you know how to do that. So you can’t rely on like, I know how to do it because I’ve already done it because you haven’t, but having the self confidence to know but I’m going to figure it out for me. Like I can do that. Because I’ve already figured out so many things in my life and collecting all of those little nuggets and reminding yourself of how you’re already ahead spit a big one for me like since being behind is a real theme in my brain I attention so good. Yeah, look for places where I’m ahead.

Jackie Murphy 38:26
Wow. I’m gonna take that from you because be I’m behind comes up a lot for me personally. And I’ve literally never thought about thinking the opposite. Until right now.

Andrea Nordling 38:39
Yeah, all of the places where you’re actually ahead and then there because what you know, whatever we focus on will will find a lot of evidence for it that’s there. There’s so many places I’m ahead there’s so many places you’re ahead. There’s so many places that our clients already are ahead and already have it all figured out and our keep things very simple. I bet that this is the same for your clients for mine they’ll have Liza super simple systems for preparing food or like making sure that they always have good food on vacation and never getting stuck eating stuff that they don’t want to be eating. Not that everyone has to like only be eating green things day in and day out all that it’s not like you know a holistic nutritionist or people who eat pizza it’s totally fine but like protecting your health and prioritizing what you eat is important so my clients I’ll have a lot of like these, these processes and systems already in place in their own life. And so we look at like how do you already know how to keep this so simple? Yeah, you already do this you already feed your entire family this amazing food on autopilot every week you already have created that you’ve already done this now. Let’s bring that into your business. How do you keep that simple. You already know how to make simple processes, things that overwhelm other people you’re already super good at streamlining those and making them doable. business that’s that’s the kind of stuff people want to know about.

Jackie Murphy 39:57
Okay, let me ask you this because I’m on the same page with you Keep it simple. You’re already good at what you are good at like that. Is there for sure. So teach that. And maybe this is the yoga industry. But my hunch is that it’s not. I get a lot of clients who think they need to diversify, they need to have a ton of offers, they need to actually make it complicated in order to make money. And I think you can make money that way. Like, I think you can have 10 offers and make some money. I’ve not done that. I don’t have the experience of that. But it’s really realizing like, why would you want to keep it simple? And getting your own answer to that question yourself? And seeing where simple does serve you in your life, like you’re talking about? Do you have people come into your group that want to make it complicated? Or think they need to?

Andrea Nordling 40:52
Totally, totally be? And I think it comes from this kind of scarcity feeling that like, I have to help everyone that’s there, I have to have something for them or they leave. Right. Right. Yeah. So it’s like, I have to have a meal plan subscription. And I have to have one on ones. And I also have this course I’m building out because it’s a great idea. And I’m also going to sell that to people sometimes when they’ve already worked with me one on one. And we’ve already gone over the basics. So they already know that but they’re, but they kind of still want help a little bit. So to make this whole course for them, so that I don’t leave them behind and just have to get inside my own brain and realize that I just need to sell them on working with me one on one more, and doing maintenance and going to the next level. But that sounds scary. So I’m gonna make a whole course for these two people I’m thinking of because I don’t want them to leave. And then I am going to do weekly meal plan subscriptions. Because I think that there are maybe three people that would like that they mentioned one time

Jackie Murphy 41:49
as you’re saying that, and this will be so fun for people to listen to like that is imposter syndrome talking. And you have to be able to identify it and be like, that is the version of me that thinks sitting down with me for 30 minutes or for an hour. And just talking wouldn’t be enough like that is imposter syndrome, right? They’re really trying to really busy and create and do the things so that you feel like you are ready, you are enough, you do have knowledge versus just being like, Hey, I think like I could go help someone right now today, I don’t need anything, I can have a conversation with you and help you. Mm hmm. And it will change your life. And having that kind of confidence comes from seeing where that’s true time and time again. And really knowing that you have value in your brain that you can teach people and be willing to like look at that and see how valuable you are. Your human value is inherent like that never changes. But the value of like what you want to teach your clients, you already have that as well.

Andrea Nordling 42:56
You do and we’ve said this many times, but let’s repeat it it’s those the things that seem too simple. Yeah, that seems too obvious that come too naturally to you, that you you just discount those things as even being the value that you have to share. That’s the thing. And it’s it’s not different for everybody. It’s I say this to my clients, I’m sure you say something similar, where it’s like, but what if it wasn’t different? What if the people that wanted the meal plan subscription wanted you to plan their meals every week, but by the way, they’re never gonna actually look at those meal plans? Because nobody wants meal plans, this entirely different conversation. But they tell you that they do what if those people are the exact same people that need your one on one, and they’re the exact same people that mentioned they might like a course What if all of those people actually just needed the same thing, and you just needed to remind them of this one thing that you do and how simple it is and how it’s the best thing for them? One, and nobody was actually different? And they were just confused. And it was your job to just show them that you actually have the answer. And here it is.

Jackie Murphy 43:53
Yes, have you I say this quote all the time from Henry Ford. Like if I had asked my customers what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse.

Andrea Nordling 44:02
Oh my gosh, it’s so good. That’s so good. And then he goes

Jackie Murphy 44:05
and builds the car. But they didn’t know your students, your clients, they don’t know what to ask for. They’re asking for your help. And you have to be able to show them, this is the help that is going to actually going to show you and help them not be confused about it and show them why they want that specific version of help that you’re offering, the offering.

Andrea Nordling 44:26
And that’s also where you’re be building even more self confidence, as you think about this as really being very simple. And you’re just showing them why you already have the best answer for them. And the more that you have conversations with real humans in the world telling them this the more you create that evidence in your own brain and you sell yourself on it more and you believe it more and it becomes so true. The evidence is everywhere, and you’ll see it in your clients that you’re working with, and you’ll see it in the conversations they’re having as they’re sending referrals your way. And you’re like oh, yeah, see, it really is the simple and all the people that want the simple are coming to you, because it’s very simple in your mind, and you’re not having all the offers, and you don’t think that there are 20 different scenarios you have to account for. Because in your brain, you’re like, No, there’s just one, everybody just needs this, I help everybody with this. And then it is just really simple.

Jackie Murphy 45:19
I just want to give everyone listening to like, maybe you can share as well, like my reason for making it simple for keeping it so simple. Why that’s the way I wanted to build my business is because my business is there to support my life, but not to be my life. And I once had a boss tell me this was when I was first teaching yoga. She was like, Jackie, the fact that you teach yoga can’t be the coolest thing about you. And it was like what it currently is, because it’s all that I do. It was like this truth moment, but it’s always stuck with me. And you can be as successful as you want to make make as much money as you want to make and do it in the way that you want to do it. Whether that’s working 15 hours a week, whether it’s like you traveling around the world, like that’s why simple supports your life simple supports your agency to be able to craft exactly what you want and not get caught up in this like hamster wheel of running. Yes,

Andrea Nordling 46:23
totally. And it gives your clients permission to simplify to, because in health and wellness in general, probably every industry, but really pervasively in health and wellness. There is a new gimmick trick plan, technique, protocol, book, like philosophy every other day, and people are very overwhelmed by that. So having a breath of fresh air of simplicity, and just that, like quiet confidence, like I got you, I know exactly what we need to do come to me, that gives people permission to keep their health journey simpler and to not be going down all the rabbit holes.

Jackie Murphy 46:58
So good. It’s actually like in service for them. It helps them. So good. That’s awesome.

Andrea Nordling 47:07
This was so fun.

Jackie Murphy 47:08
It was so fun.

Andrea Nordling 47:10
I bet we’ll do this again. Yeah, I

Jackie Murphy 47:12
really think we should I really just love that as our clients and as you and I like continue to have these conversations and continue to build the businesses that we have the way that we have and our clients build them simply from self confidence that will change the wellness industry, like it will change the game. And maybe there will be I’m thinking of like goop the website that has all the different things that you could try to be well, that might always be there. But as we shift, we make it more digestible for people, the world becomes healthier. Yes. And like that’s why we’re doing what we’re doing. At least for me, I’m like, this is a bigger game.

Andrea Nordling 47:58
This is a bigger game, because when it doesn’t have when a wellness business doesn’t have like that starving artist mentality. It’s good for everybody. Right for everybody, everybody. I mean, yeah, we’re just we’re normalizing success in this industry as the standard. And just like rising the health of so many millions of people, just by normalizing that. So

Jackie Murphy 48:27
good. Like one day, let’s just imagine it’s just normal. For a health coach for yoga teacher to make the same as a law, you’re a doctor, the careers that we deem successful. And when that shift happens in the minds of our society, it’ll show you that as a society, we started to prioritize our well being.

Andrea Nordling 48:50
Yeah, yeah. And I think without getting like to, to like current event D. I think we’re seeing that in real time right now as the world is looking for new options.

Jackie Murphy 49:03
Yes. Mm hmm. The world is looking for help. Like, truly it’s looking for help and getting curious and thinking, What can I do? How can I do this myself and that is where That’s where we come in

Andrea Nordling 49:20
is with our simple, competent solutions. Awesome. I love it. Okay, my friend Well, we will for sure be reprising this at some point in probably the near future but thank you for coming in and hanging out and talking all things imposter syndrome today.

Jackie Murphy 49:39
We got right back. atcha right back atcha. This was so fun. And I just love that we all face the same problem. So anyone listening you’re not alone. We’ve got you

Andrea Nordling 49:49
totally

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